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Anyone know of DPS Parsers?Follow

#1 Aug 20 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
I've been looking for a DPS Meter or parser program if anyone has an idea of where one is. I just want to know if what I'm doing is useful or useless in a group lol.
#2 Aug 20 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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6,357 posts
At the top of this page click the XIV App link, it might just blow your mind.
#3 Aug 20 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
Do you really need a dps meter for this game?
#4 Aug 20 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
Oh I guess it was on your main page lol. I never visited the main, just been sticking to the forums. Thanks for the info :)
#5 Aug 20 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Ehllfire wrote:
Do you really need a dps meter for this game?


Metrics are intrinsic to improving.
#6 Aug 20 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
Lamneth wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
Do you really need a dps meter for this game?


Metrics are intrinsic to improving.

If by improving means being **** about .23dps difference
#7 Aug 20 2013 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
Or just knowing when is it more valuable to aoe vs single target, or how many mobs till multidotting should be a thing vs single target. Order of spells cast, differences with different sets of gear... Its a long list of knowing for certain vs just speculating with 0 information to go on other than, "It feels like everything is dieing faster..."
#8 Aug 20 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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6,357 posts
Ehllfire wrote:

If by improving means being **** about .23dps difference


Without any metrics how can you know you could only improve by .23 dps :p
#9 Aug 20 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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192 posts
Lamneth wrote:
At the top of this page click the XIV App link, it might just blow your mind.


I get a 404 when I hit download
#10 Aug 20 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Default
Can someone explain to me how the parser looks at DOT (damage over time) spells?
In the chat log, from what I can tell, the damage numbers are not displayed in there and it only says that the target is under the ailment.
#11 Aug 20 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,208 posts
Dilbert wrote:
Lamneth wrote:
At the top of this page click the XIV App link, it might just blow your mind.


I get a 404 when I hit download


That means you're parsing above everyone else... I only got a 401 Smiley: lol
#12 Aug 20 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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311 posts
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.
#13 Aug 20 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
Teracide wrote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.


Those DPS complaints are no different then the "bad player" in group complaints. You will NEVER escape them. The only way it would stop is if everyone knew how to play video games well. They don't so every game gets the same complaints.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 2:49pm by Mopdaddy
#14 Aug 20 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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362 posts
I think an in-game damage meter is a terrible idea, but I'm ok with a parser outside of the game. The difference being most people won't bother with or constantly be staring at it if it's not on their screen at all times. The percentage of people will be much higher who will use it to be helpful and make guides pointing out what stats benefit what spells more, etc.

When it's on the screen it's just an excuse for people to be bad, like you said. "I don't care if I pull aggro by going all out and not watching threat, I won the meter!"
#15 Aug 20 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
Teracide wrote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.



I agree it also leads to click box healing addons, mods that tell you how to fight bosses, and auction house scanners, all of which can make the game more enjoyable but also take away any effort on the part of the players and in my opinion it changes the style of the game to one that requires little effort on the players. I hope these apps do not make it in game.
#16 Aug 20 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
The thing you have to remember though is, jerks are gonna be jerks givin the tools or not. I and other people like to use this tool to self improve and it gives insight on why something isn't dieing fast enough, or if some one is just forgetting to use a cooldown, than reminding them to use it.

Use it for the power of good not evil!
#17 Aug 20 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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3,737 posts
elevens wrote:
I agree it also leads to click box healing addons, mods that tell you how to fight bosses, and auction house scanners, all of which can make the game more enjoyable but also take away any effort on the part of the players and in my opinion it changes the style of the game to one that requires little effort on the players. I hope these apps do not make it in game.


Brace yourself because FFXIV is going to have UI addons. That's been confirmed for months now.

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.


XI had a parser app that ran alongside the game that did exactly the same thing.

Quote:
Can someone explain to me how the parser looks at DOT (damage over time) spells?


If it's not in the chat log, then the app author would have to know how the DoT's damage is calculated and then do that calculation in the app itself to get it in as part of the dps.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#18 Aug 20 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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311 posts
Mopdaddy wrote:
Teracide wrote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.


Those DPS complaints are no different then the "bad player" in group complaints. You will NEVER escape them. The only way it would stop is if everyone knew how to play video games well. They don't so every game gets the same complaints.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 2:49pm by Mopdaddy


Bad groups are gonna happen with or without a DPS meter. DPS meters make it worse, though. It gives aggressive players an actual number to throw in others faces.

How are you gonna know that SMN is bad without a DPS meter? He's standing back there firing off his abilities just like anyone else. For all you know he's smoking you in DPS. That factor keeps a lot of peoples mouths shut. I suppose it's more of an "ignorance is bliss" factor. The aggressive player doesn't get the opportunity to voice his aggression, due to being oblivious of the actual output of himself, and others. And everyone else doesn't have to deal with the egotistical aggressive player. It's a win-win for everyone.

With a DPS meter in the game, other players just become numbers. They're no longer players. That concerns me. I suppose you can't really put the blame on a DPS meter, it's definitely the fault of the MMO community. I just don't want this game to become as sociopathic as WoW is.



Edited, Aug 20th 2013 3:04pm by Teracide
#19 Aug 20 2013 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
I have to agree with Teracide. I've had too many discussions in XI with folks over the years whining and complaining because I'm not doing something to the letter per their parsing now did I ever really WANT to ffxiclopedia stuff at first. It's like EVE Online. Everybody and their brother is an EFT-warrior trying to peel the very last bit of DPS out of a ship fitting because they're 'hard core'. Some people don't play to be hard core. I, for one, want to enjoy myself. Angry people will be angry people, and metering only adds ammo to their already full portfolio of sh*t to b*tch about.

Parsing is THE way to accurately and definitively measure statistical performance, yes. It's a great tool to help the individual improve themselves. It's not a tool to be used to slam others. Doing so takes something away from the game, and I hate to say it, but the group I largely see and hear doing it are those not yet out of school. They have the time and desire to make their mark by being the best, while some of us who work and have families use games for what they're meant for -- entertainment. Nothing else.

Will I parse? Yeah. For myself.
Will I run into other people slamming me for not being 'optimal'? Yeah. Don't care.
#20 Aug 20 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,737 posts
Yeah, it's important to put the blame for negative community behavior where it belongs.... the community.

All the parser is doing is math.

I can tell you as someone who's done hardcore PvE progression in the past (as a role officer) that parses are immensely useful for fixing problems that prevent you from killing bosses.

For instance, I was the healing officer for my last WoW guild. I would analyze my healing team's world of logs parses after a raid night to see where the problems popped up. I used the parse data to fix some spell priority for people on certain fights where they weren't making the best use of their toolsets and it was causing them to be less effective (and caused tanks and others to die as a result).

It's not about bashing people over the head with meters when used properly. It's about using the data to improve and fix problems.

Also, on Friday, there was discussion in LS chat about someone who was joining dungeons and auto-attacking the whole time.. nothing else. An in-game meter lets you point that out, which does a couple of things:
- Lets them know you noticed, and maybe they'll shape up and contribute instead of disrespecting the other three people in their party who are all doing their jobs
- Lets everyone else know who may not have noticed that was happening. This lets you make a decision, as a party, about what to do about that.

In the end the tool itself gets a lot of blame for negative behavior; look at the people behaving that way, they're the ones who are causing the problem.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#21 Aug 20 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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66 posts
Woot, woot! Logical post is logical!

I agree with Callinon 100%. In fact, I think it is a symptom of an overall problem with people in general these days. Aside from an utter lack of humility, there is a total lack of accountability for ones own actions. Very few people are willing to take stock in themselves and think for even a second that there might just be room for improvement. There are too many things for people to point their finger at instead of the real root cause; poor human behavior.
#22 Aug 20 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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6,357 posts
elevens wrote:
I agree it also leads to click box healing addons, mods that tell you how to fight bosses, and auction house scanners, all of which can make the game more enjoyable but also take away any effort on the part of the players and in my opinion it changes the style of the game to one that requires little effort on the players. I hope these apps do not make it in game.



I'm going to play devils advocate here for a minute. (except for auction house scanners and economy addons, a single player should not be able to control a servers economy with 30min of work each day may they burn in hell)

Do addons that tell you how to fight bosses, allow you to heal by clicking and spell hint addons make the game easier? Or do they allow developers to create more engaging bosses?

In my personal experience, which spans most most MMORPGs that have seen wide release in NA, ones that allow these sorts of addons have more engaging and difficult endgame content. Let me take a step back and define what I mean by that. I consider engaging combat to be an 'ability' rotation you use to optimize either healing/dps/damage reduction, which changes based on circumstances and has decisions a player needs to make to play optimally. You don't need lots of abilities for this to be true, but you shouldn't be able to go into any situation and hit the same buttons in the same order and be playing optimally. I consider this engaging because it allows for you to feel accomplished when you managed to maintain close to optimal performance while engaging in the next key point, difficult endgame content. There are lots of ways to measure difficulty and I'm not sure it is something that can actually be done, but I know what I personally have enjoyed in the past. A good 'boss fight' is one that you aren't guaranteed to win just by showing up with the right group assortment and requires all of the members to rely on each other to perform optimally in a situation that constantly strives to prevent them from doing this through boss mechanics.

I don't actually think it is addons that make any of these things possible. There is no reason a developer can't create a good healing interface or good boss cues. However, what addons do allow for, is for the community to extend the interface of the game in ways the original developers didn't even think of, and while that can result is what many people consider an ugly interface, at least that interface is what that individual player prefers.

Should XIV allow addons?
Unless they can find some way to allow PS3 users to use them as well, they need to avoid allowing them as it would make PS3 players second rate citizens of the game. However, if they do go down the path of not allowing addons, they need to be very receptive to player criticism and ideas for extending the interface to allow the game to grow and mature.
#23 Aug 20 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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311 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Yeah, it's important to put the blame for negative community behavior where it belongs.... the community.

All the parser is doing is math.

I can tell you as someone who's done hardcore PvE progression in the past (as a role officer) that parses are immensely useful for fixing problems that prevent you from killing bosses.

For instance, I was the healing officer for my last WoW guild. I would analyze my healing team's world of logs parses after a raid night to see where the problems popped up. I used the parse data to fix some spell priority for people on certain fights where they weren't making the best use of their toolsets and it was causing them to be less effective (and caused tanks and others to die as a result).

It's not about bashing people over the head with meters when used properly. It's about using the data to improve and fix problems.

Also, on Friday, there was discussion in LS chat about someone who was joining dungeons and auto-attacking the whole time.. nothing else. An in-game meter lets you point that out, which does a couple of things:
- Lets them know you noticed, and maybe they'll shape up and contribute instead of disrespecting the other three people in their party who are all doing their jobs
- Lets everyone else know who may not have noticed that was happening. This lets you make a decision, as a party, about what to do about that.

In the end the tool itself gets a lot of blame for negative behavior; look at the people behaving that way, they're the ones who are causing the problem.


I'm actually the Melee Officer of my current WoW guild. I'm definitely no stranger to the usefulness of parsers and meters in a progression setting. I've actually dismissed quite a few players due to bad output. I'm coming at this subject from an empathetic point of view, not a concerned one. We use World of Logs and Recount to dismiss not-so-good players all of the time.

I'm not really trying to blame the tools, more-so blaming the immature user. How many times have you hopped into an LFR and watched the chat? One or two wipes and you'll see people verbally crucifying one another, usually over DPS or HPS. The hatred you see bouncing around in WoW is almost sickening. That's what I DO NOT want to see in FFXIV. It's one of the reasons I'm quitting WoW this week.
#24 Aug 20 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Teracide wrote:
The hatred you see bouncing around in WoW is almost sickening. That's what I DO NOT want to see in FFXIV. It's one of the reasons I'm quitting WoW this week.



I worry more that the lack of numbers in game will lead to a situation like old days XI where many DD classes were passed over because they did not do good DPS. In a game with parsers in place you have accountability enforced from the community ensuring that classes are balanced to some degree.
#25 Aug 20 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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311 posts
Maybe I'm just over-victimizing the players that would be negatively effected by having a DPS meter in the game.

Or maybe I just don't want this game to become and sociopathic wasteland like WoW is.
#26 Aug 20 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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6,357 posts
Teracide wrote:

Or maybe I just don't want this game to become and sociopathic wasteland like WoW is.


With great power comes great responsibility. One can dream that someday players will have information and manners.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 3:00pm by Lamneth
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