So, I was able to check out the game on ps3 over the weekend for the first time and both me and my wife have fallen in love with it. Neither of us really know a whole lot about MMOs like this (we both played MapleStory for a good number of years; completely different setup), but we will eventually learn all the dos and don'ts. Basically, we (I) am looking to make some friends that don't mind someone who knows close to nothing about how things run in the game, but are willing to learn. The only real thing that worries us is party play. We don't really understand what roles do what in a party environment, dungeon runs, etc. A tank is meant to take all the damage from monsters due to high defense and HP, right? Does that mean if I'm a THM or BLM I can't get too close to the tank in case the monster decides to focus on me? Those are rhetorical btw.
Anyways, the basic gist of what I'm trying to say is that we(I) are looking to make some friends that don't mind someone that will make many mistakes along the way to what will become an enjoyable gaming experience.
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Hi2u and welcome :)
Your best bet would be Ultros server, as a majority of the non-legacy people on these forums are currently there. I'm sure like-minded people wouldn't mind at all helping you and your wife out ^^
To answer your question, yes - jobs tend to have specific roles in party set-ups. What you said about tanks is correct - they are responsible for taking the damage and keeping the monsters on them using abilities to generate additional hate (or enmity). So long as they can do that, the distance that a THM (or any other class for that matter) is from the monster is irrelevant, unless that monster uses an AoE skill (area of effect). These are generally easy to see coming though, as there will be a red circle outline which is clearly visible and pretty easy to avoid. And then of course you have the healer/support roles, and the DD/DPS role (damage dealer/damage per second).
The set-ups are pretty easy to learn, so dont worry much about the learning curve (everyone starts there anyway; TBH I can't stand when self-proclaimed 'pros' get all bitter at the idea of having a newbie in their party. Those kinds of people will drive me to an early grave one day ><).
Anything else, feel free to ask ^^
Your best bet would be Ultros server, as a majority of the non-legacy people on these forums are currently there. I'm sure like-minded people wouldn't mind at all helping you and your wife out ^^
To answer your question, yes - jobs tend to have specific roles in party set-ups. What you said about tanks is correct - they are responsible for taking the damage and keeping the monsters on them using abilities to generate additional hate (or enmity). So long as they can do that, the distance that a THM (or any other class for that matter) is from the monster is irrelevant, unless that monster uses an AoE skill (area of effect). These are generally easy to see coming though, as there will be a red circle outline which is clearly visible and pretty easy to avoid. And then of course you have the healer/support roles, and the DD/DPS role (damage dealer/damage per second).
The set-ups are pretty easy to learn, so dont worry much about the learning curve (everyone starts there anyway; TBH I can't stand when self-proclaimed 'pros' get all bitter at the idea of having a newbie in their party. Those kinds of people will drive me to an early grave one day ><).
Anything else, feel free to ask ^^
11 posts
I thank you kindly for replying, and answering my questions. There's just so much more information in this game to process than I'm used to that it seems almost impossible to learn every thing. Of course, that comes with any new gaming experience so it isn't exactly surprising. But as we're both huge FF fans, and want to expand our knowledge of this game to the fullest extent, the whole idea of something this massive and new to us is intimidating. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction as far as server goes! ^-^
Join the Ultros LS that members of the zam community are running, they can help you and answer any questions you might have, also if you are planning on playing next week, there is a sort of faq on the forum, on which to do to progress leveling up.
11 posts
Alright, sounds like a plan. Thanks. :]
Hope you enjoy the ZAM experience! 
Welcome! Feel free to ask any questions like this - some of use have been playing MMORPGs for 13 years or more, so things like party composition and party roles tend to be second nature and standard across many of these types of games.
As Swiftsyke said, the physical orientation to the tank isn't as important unless the monster is doing a frontal AOE (area of effect) spell that will hit or splash other party members with damage. As a damage dealer I tend to stay to the side or behind the monster unless they have attacks that also go in those directions (dragons in different games are notorious for moves like 'tail sweep' that will damage people directly behind them. It all depends on the monster and the situation.
The only thing that will cause the monster to focus on you instead of the tank is Enmity, or 'hate' as some people call it. If you do too much damage too fast, you might override the hate the tank is dishing out, and this will cause you to become first on the monster's hate list.
As Swiftsyke said, the physical orientation to the tank isn't as important unless the monster is doing a frontal AOE (area of effect) spell that will hit or splash other party members with damage. As a damage dealer I tend to stay to the side or behind the monster unless they have attacks that also go in those directions (dragons in different games are notorious for moves like 'tail sweep' that will damage people directly behind them. It all depends on the monster and the situation.
The only thing that will cause the monster to focus on you instead of the tank is Enmity, or 'hate' as some people call it. If you do too much damage too fast, you might override the hate the tank is dishing out, and this will cause you to become first on the monster's hate list.
Welcome!
I think you'll find that most players, particularly FFXI veterans, are more than willing to help new players. Mainly because we all look back on our noob days with fondness. Another suggestion I would make is once you get the hang of party dynamics try it as a different class. Understanding what and why the other people in your party are doing helps a ton.
I think you'll find that most players, particularly FFXI veterans, are more than willing to help new players. Mainly because we all look back on our noob days with fondness. Another suggestion I would make is once you get the hang of party dynamics try it as a different class. Understanding what and why the other people in your party are doing helps a ton.
Hi, you could also, during this downtime, look and read all the Guides out there.
Here's one, you can check up what they have up so far.
http://eorzeareborn.com/category/guide/
Since we are in Beta, things are subject to change. (for the good usually)
See you on the weekend. Hope you join the Zam LS
Here's one, you can check up what they have up so far.
http://eorzeareborn.com/category/guide/
Since we are in Beta, things are subject to change. (for the good usually)
See you on the weekend. Hope you join the Zam LS
http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/242033
Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
11 posts
Thanks again, guys! You've been real helpful so far, and I look forward to talking to you here, and hopefully in-game. I think I have the basics down so far, but I'll learn more as I go along. Appreciate the replies.
One thing that I actually enjoy about this game is the baby-steps approach to level 50, with a shift at level cap. Your first 3 dungeons are simple 4-person runs that are more fun than they are complicated. I wouldn't sweat the level progression and just view it as 50 levels of learning your job. Also, take full advantage of the fact that your beta p3 characters will be wiped soon anyway, so don't be afraid to make mistakes!
Yup, party play in most MMO's (and this is not an exception) is based around the so-called "Holy Trinity" of Tank, Healer and DD/DPS (Damage Dealer/Damage per second, the main measure of their performance).
Tanks are designed for 2 things - 1) Getting monster attention and 2) Surviving the beating that ensues. Each monster has a perceived threat from each player - it attacks the player that it sees as the highest threat to it. In this game, the stat for this is enmity. Dealing damage to the monster, and healing damage from it grab enmity. The tank's 1) job is to put out more enmity than anyone else. This is why Gladiators (& later Paladins) and Marauders (Warriors) have certain skills with an "increases enmity" additional effect. It is their compensation for lower damage. How they approach 2) is slightly different. GLD uses the shield to block chunks of damage, MRD parries less with their Great Axe, but can leech lost life back with abilities - plus they have more HP to start with too.
Healers do what they say on the tin - keep people alive! Conjurers (& later White Mages) are the nautral healers, and Scholars can too (as a job from Arcanist - idk if ARC can heal natively). Any class can cross-class Cure from CNJ, but it will have poor potency (possibly Thaumaturge aside. BTW, can a THM cross-class Cure & use Umbral Ice for infinite MP healing? Didn't get to Gridinia this weekend, as I plan to main a LNC).
DDs ... yeah, they deal damage. Kill stuff. Open the pwnage - hence, every 12 year old with a pre-pubescent voice wants to "pew-pew," giving the rest of us a bad name :). They come in 2 types - Melee & Ranged. Melee DD are Lancer (Dragoon) and Pugilist (Monk). Due to needing to be so close, and the danger that brings (being out of range, AoE attacks etc.), they tend to have the highest theoretical DPS, but it is rare to hit that mark. They also get some defensive cooldowns (powerful defensive abilities, that have a long cooldown to restrict their use). Both use combinations of weapon skills to deal their damage, and often must alter their position (side of target, behind target) to maximise their efforts. Ranged DD are Archer (Bard) and Thaumaturge (Black Mage). ACH is still a physical DD, but without positioning requirements as much. THM is your standard caster, with a different mechanic - but it seems from your post you've already rolled one :P. A key THM ability in parties is Sleep. You can remove a monster from combat for 30 seconds - as long as no-one attacks it! Co-ordinate with your group which target you will sleep, to make the tank's job easier.
As others have said, it's beta - it's the time for everyone (devs included!) to make mistakes. Just ... don't go dropping Fire 2's at the tank's feet - they don't like that. And you won't, once 5 mobs start beating on your THM ***!
Tanks are designed for 2 things - 1) Getting monster attention and 2) Surviving the beating that ensues. Each monster has a perceived threat from each player - it attacks the player that it sees as the highest threat to it. In this game, the stat for this is enmity. Dealing damage to the monster, and healing damage from it grab enmity. The tank's 1) job is to put out more enmity than anyone else. This is why Gladiators (& later Paladins) and Marauders (Warriors) have certain skills with an "increases enmity" additional effect. It is their compensation for lower damage. How they approach 2) is slightly different. GLD uses the shield to block chunks of damage, MRD parries less with their Great Axe, but can leech lost life back with abilities - plus they have more HP to start with too.
Healers do what they say on the tin - keep people alive! Conjurers (& later White Mages) are the nautral healers, and Scholars can too (as a job from Arcanist - idk if ARC can heal natively). Any class can cross-class Cure from CNJ, but it will have poor potency (possibly Thaumaturge aside. BTW, can a THM cross-class Cure & use Umbral Ice for infinite MP healing? Didn't get to Gridinia this weekend, as I plan to main a LNC).
DDs ... yeah, they deal damage. Kill stuff. Open the pwnage - hence, every 12 year old with a pre-pubescent voice wants to "pew-pew," giving the rest of us a bad name :). They come in 2 types - Melee & Ranged. Melee DD are Lancer (Dragoon) and Pugilist (Monk). Due to needing to be so close, and the danger that brings (being out of range, AoE attacks etc.), they tend to have the highest theoretical DPS, but it is rare to hit that mark. They also get some defensive cooldowns (powerful defensive abilities, that have a long cooldown to restrict their use). Both use combinations of weapon skills to deal their damage, and often must alter their position (side of target, behind target) to maximise their efforts. Ranged DD are Archer (Bard) and Thaumaturge (Black Mage). ACH is still a physical DD, but without positioning requirements as much. THM is your standard caster, with a different mechanic - but it seems from your post you've already rolled one :P. A key THM ability in parties is Sleep. You can remove a monster from combat for 30 seconds - as long as no-one attacks it! Co-ordinate with your group which target you will sleep, to make the tank's job easier.
As others have said, it's beta - it's the time for everyone (devs included!) to make mistakes. Just ... don't go dropping Fire 2's at the tank's feet - they don't like that. And you won't, once 5 mobs start beating on your THM ***!
11 posts
LOL, thanks for the wonderful descriptions, carmelita. That truly gives me a much better understanding of what to do when in a party. I think I read somewhere about the sleeping thing. I will be sure to practice, practice, practice until I get things right with my character. I think you basically covered my most major concern so now all that's left to do is play the waiting game until we can play again..
I knew coming into this game(and most MMOs) there was specific roles for each class, but like I said before I come from an MMO where any class can do max damage relatively easy. And, of course, the game I'm talking about doesn't require party play at all. Even the hardest bosses in the game die within a few minutes if you're doing max damage. So, once again thanks to everyone who replied and helped out. It means a lot to have the information I needed before going out and making a fool of myself! :)
Edited, Jul 2nd 2013 9:02am by Moojesty
I knew coming into this game(and most MMOs) there was specific roles for each class, but like I said before I come from an MMO where any class can do max damage relatively easy. And, of course, the game I'm talking about doesn't require party play at all. Even the hardest bosses in the game die within a few minutes if you're doing max damage. So, once again thanks to everyone who replied and helped out. It means a lot to have the information I needed before going out and making a fool of myself! :)
Edited, Jul 2nd 2013 9:02am by Moojesty
As a past and possibly future tank we appreciate it if you announce that you're going to drop a big boom a bit before you do it. Lets us prepare accordingly so we're not scrambling trying to keep five mobs from eating your face 
A few more generations of happy couples gaming together are exactly what we need to get over the "teenage basement shut-in" image that keeps popping up. (albeit less now than a decade or two ago)
The missus and I both level healing classes as primary, but I swap to a Tank job when she's actually online (that darn Employment thing) Makes for easy party assembly when you just need Damage.
Keep your gear as up to date as possible, and don't be afraid to tank a few hits from over-healing when you have to, either your Enmity rating will drop from the damage, or your tank will regain control. either way the mob usually will lose interest in you after a bite or two.
Know when to tank, but know when to run back towards/through the melee, if the monster is chasing you and out of reach, your team can't overcome your Hate.
This leads into "know when to train" I spent a good minute running Oozes in a circle after the Main tank went down twice in the storyline. (sorry about that, rubberband-lagspike the first time, Tanking while weak the second, Awesome work though) If a win is possible, the others can pick the stragglers off of you until Enmity is restored.
Finally, people WILL die, do your best, but when it's Unavoidable, It's Unavoidable... and if you ***** the pooch, Own up to it on the spot, move on. Do better.
Cherish the Gamer wife.
Edited, Jul 2nd 2013 2:44pm by OtosanOokami
The missus and I both level healing classes as primary, but I swap to a Tank job when she's actually online (that darn Employment thing) Makes for easy party assembly when you just need Damage.
Keep your gear as up to date as possible, and don't be afraid to tank a few hits from over-healing when you have to, either your Enmity rating will drop from the damage, or your tank will regain control. either way the mob usually will lose interest in you after a bite or two.
Know when to tank, but know when to run back towards/through the melee, if the monster is chasing you and out of reach, your team can't overcome your Hate.
This leads into "know when to train" I spent a good minute running Oozes in a circle after the Main tank went down twice in the storyline. (sorry about that, rubberband-lagspike the first time, Tanking while weak the second, Awesome work though) If a win is possible, the others can pick the stragglers off of you until Enmity is restored.
Finally, people WILL die, do your best, but when it's Unavoidable, It's Unavoidable... and if you ***** the pooch, Own up to it on the spot, move on. Do better.
Cherish the Gamer wife.
Edited, Jul 2nd 2013 2:44pm by OtosanOokami
Quote:
This leads into "know when to train" I spent a good minute running Oozes in a circle after the Main tank went down twice in the storyline. (sorry about that, rubberband-lagspike the first time, Tanking while weak the second, Awesome work though) If a win is possible, the others can pick the stragglers off of you until Enmity is restored.
Kiting is a good skill to have as a tank, particularly a secondary tank.
This is making me miss the original holy trinity.
Tank, Healer, and Crowd Control.
It's sad when people start attacking my Sleep targets when I put them to sleep for attacking, say, the healer.
Tank, Healer, and Crowd Control.
It's sad when people start attacking my Sleep targets when I put them to sleep for attacking, say, the healer.
Ravashack wrote:
This is making me miss the original holy trinity.
Tank, Healer, and Crowd Control.
It's sad when people start attacking my Sleep targets when I put them to sleep for attacking, say, the healer.
Tank, Healer, and Crowd Control.
It's sad when people start attacking my Sleep targets when I put them to sleep for attacking, say, the healer.
Yup, had this on a Sastasha run on the weekend. Told the tank - "sleeping X, please leave." Seems he had some odd filter settings, as he saw "please attack X." Then I sleep adds wailing on ACH/CNJ - ACH keeps attacking his target, tank grabs CNJ target with melee attack, pulling all mobs on top of the healer ...
Blizzard II got a lot of use for the bind effect in that run :P
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