Good Luck in Eorzea! :: Final Fantasy XIV (FFXIV, FF14)

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#27 Jun 28 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Default

DuoMaxwellxx

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Hyrist wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

that was actually a serious question so Im actually happy he did.. though the next question i might ask is if I did those hunt log son my new class from 1 - 10 then decide to level another job from 1 - 0 do I do teh same hunt log again (i.e is it repeatable) or do they give me a new hunt log or would I have ti find ANOTHER way to get from 1-10 again.

Depends on the nation the class starts, honestly.

If you're say, going from Lancer to Conjurer or Archer, expect to be fighting the same or similar monsters. Going from Lancer to Maurader? Expect different monsters that time around. Once you unlock and start doing the Grand Company Logs, you'll be traveling around quite a bit to fight different monsters in different areas.

Each class has their own log, and each grand company has their own log. They're non repeatable per say, but there are enough separate logs to keep you occupied for each subject matter.

Parathyroid wrote:

I do agree with one point in that post I think GCD (at least at some of the lower levels, I'm only 15) does get a bit robotic... I do find myself wishing there was some variability in standard attack load times.

This is my first MMO with GCD, so perhaps is just takes some getting used to.

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 1:23pm by Parathyroid

There are abilities and attacks that have their own cooldowns, that, as you gather more and more of them, you start not to notice the GCD at all. The GDC also gets reduced with copious amounts of skill speed.

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 1:54pm by Hyrist

ok so every class has their own list.. thats what I meant by "new" log even if some of teh lists are exact repeats of what another class did its still what I would consider a "new" log as Im not just rekilling mobs that are already scratched off from teh last list I did on another class.. so then I guess that makes sense... though i still think for a "casual friendly" game they didnt make leveling as fast/easy as you would think.. I mean most ppl with everything at 50 in 1.0 make it sound liek they did in it just a month. whereas it sounds like it would take maybe a month just to max out one job in ARR... unlike in DCUO were you can max every class in literally one sitting (8 hours) each.... and thats if youre going slow/taking your time

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#28 Jun 28 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent

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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

WFOAssassin wrote:

Adzieboy wrote:

The time consuming content will likely be when you start to actively level another job without the quests to give you the boost.

Good point. However, all three cities have those beginner quests. So, you can level three jobs kina fast but after that its grind time on monsters and FATEs for the other jobs. Which unless you only want to play one job will take a while.

what? but i thought this game was ALL about leveling through the use of quests and simply beating on monsters to level up was an optional but outdated concept? what happened to the casual approach? no WoW players wanna take days/weeks maxing out job... Also as for starting cities quests so I can waltz up to another starting city and do their quests? I thought you were restricted to whatever city your first class starts in? (i know you can GO to other cities but I wasnt aware you could do their quests)

This game wasn't remade to cater to WoW players. It was remade for final fantasy fans and people who enjoyed XI. If this game doesn't have what you want go play something that does.

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#29 DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Jun 28 2013 at 12:50 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

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#30 Jun 28 2013 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good

Hyrist

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I don't think this game makes an overt effort to cater to any particular game player. In fact I think it's more geared to be welcoming to completely new MMO players than anything. Which is fair, considering the majority of Final Fantasy fans never got into FFXI, or World of Warcraft.

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#31 Jun 28 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Default

DuoMaxwellxx

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Hyrist wrote:

I don't think this game makes an overt effort to cater to any particular game player. In fact I think it's more geared to be welcoming to completely new MMO players than anything. Which is fair, considering the majority of Final Fantasy fans never got into FFXI, or World of Warcraft.

exactly and WoW is COMPLETELY welcoming.. to teh point of hand holding

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#32 Jun 28 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent

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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

Parathyroid wrote:

Louiscool wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

bot how much of that stuff can be done at level 1 or 10? which is probably the level youll be when starting a NEW class/job?

Guildhests start at 10 I believe, and once you unlock the ability to do levequests, there are leves available at level 1. Fates are easily doable at level 1 as well. the early ones scale to the number of participants.

Lastly, the Hunting Log starts at level 1 and has you killing normal roaming enemies while encouraging exploration to find these specific enemies. I found these fun and better to do in parties, as you'll be assigned a lo for level 1-10, and can kill them all early, so if you have a party you can take finish the log sooner and start on the next one.

I can't believe you justified that with an answer.

that was actually a serious question so Im actually happy he did.. though the next question i might ask is if I did those hunt log son my new class from 1 - 10 then decide to level another job from 1 - 0 do I do teh same hunt log again (i.e is it repeatable) or do they give me a new hunt log or would I have ti find ANOTHER way to get from 1-10 again.

Wait... if that was a serious question that means you aren't in beta???

If you aren't in beta that means you've been making all these comments based on what?

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 4:22pm by Parathyroid

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#33 Jun 28 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent

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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.

Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)

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#34 Jun 28 2013 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent

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For the sake of just saying it...

"Can I have your stuff?"

Btw... it's spelt THE

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#35 Jun 28 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent

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chomama wrote:

Btw... it's spelt THE

If you're going to attempt to correct someone it would behoove you to use the correct word. Spelled is the term (i.e. it is spelled "THE") and not spelt, which is a form of grain.

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#36 Jun 28 2013 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent

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"In all other main varieties of English, spelt and spelled both work as the past tense and past participle of spell, at least where spell means to form words letter by letter or (with out) to make clear."

"Outside the U.S., the two forms are interchangeable in these uses, and both are common."

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 11:41pm by chomama

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#37 Jun 28 2013 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good

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Yeah, this game sucks. I'm joking, Jesus.

Edited, Jun 29th 2013 2:55am by Transmigration

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#38 Jun 28 2013 at 11:17 PM Rating: Default

DuoMaxwellxx

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Louiscool wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.

Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)

so we'll eventually have hard core bosses that only teh best of the best will be able to beat for awhile (dynamis lord) or absolute virtue (well maybe not THAT far but i wouldnt mind if it did). missions that might have to try 5+ times before I win them (CoP like).. 3 hour raids (dyamis) or a weapons that would take most people a year+ to obtain (i,.e relic or mythic in FFXI) kinda stuff? I doubt that. But you know what other game doesnt have that kind of stuff? WoW (unless you can give me examples in WoW of that kinda stuff right now) So if Wow doesnt have that kinda stuff and my doubts that FFXIV will have that kinda stuff is correct then my implication that this game is catering to ppl who like WoW and not ppl who liked FFXI is justified. Has my logic been made clearer now?

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#39 DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Jun 28 2013 at 11:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) based on what I see, read, and hear other who ARE playing teh beta say.. I men I have a beta cod.. I could play right now if I choose.. but I dont wanna deal with the glitches, bugs etc etc (and lack of voice acting) that come with a beta, plus I dont wanna have the experience spoiled for me... leveling to 35+ wont be as fun during releases when Ive already done it and know exactly where to go/what to do and what to expect from having done it in the beta... plus once teh game IS out anything I DO find to complain about would be justified as no one could use the "its just a beta" excuse anymore

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#40 Jun 29 2013 at 1:11 AM Rating: Excellent

Teneleven

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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

Parathyroid wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

Parathyroid wrote:

Louiscool wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

bot how much of that stuff can be done at level 1 or 10? which is probably the level youll be when starting a NEW class/job?

Guildhests start at 10 I believe, and once you unlock the ability to do levequests, there are leves available at level 1. Fates are easily doable at level 1 as well. the early ones scale to the number of participants.

Lastly, the Hunting Log starts at level 1 and has you killing normal roaming enemies while encouraging exploration to find these specific enemies. I found these fun and better to do in parties, as you'll be assigned a lo for level 1-10, and can kill them all early, so if you have a party you can take finish the log sooner and start on the next one.

I can't believe you justified that with an answer.

that was actually a serious question so Im actually happy he did.. though the next question i might ask is if I did those hunt log son my new class from 1 - 10 then decide to level another job from 1 - 0 do I do teh same hunt log again (i.e is it repeatable) or do they give me a new hunt log or would I have ti find ANOTHER way to get from 1-10 again.

Wait... if that was a serious question that means you aren't in beta???

If you aren't in beta that means you've been making all these comments based on what?

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 4:22pm by Parathyroid

based on what I see, read, and hear other who ARE playing teh beta say.. I men I have a beta cod.. I could play right now if I choose.. but I dont wanna deal with the glitches, bugs etc etc (and lack of voice acting) that come with a beta, plus I dont wanna have the experience spoiled for me... leveling to 35+ wont be as fun during releases when Ive already done it and know exactly where to go/what to do and what to expect from having done it in the beta... plus once teh game IS out anything I DO find to complain about would be justified as no one could use the "its just a beta" excuse anymore

Please .. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ... Nobody spells the as "teh" anymore. PLEASE STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#41 Jun 29 2013 at 1:48 AM Rating: Excellent

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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

based on what I see, read, and hear other who ARE playing the beta say.. I men I have a beta cod.. I could play right now if I choose.. but I don't wanna deal with the glitches, bugs etc etc (and lack of voice acting) that come with a beta, plus I don't wanna have the experience spoiled for me... leveling to 35+ wont be as fun during releases when I've already done it and know exactly where to go/what to do and what to expect from having done it in the beta... plus once the game IS out anything I DO find to complain about would be justified as no one could use the "its just a beta" excuse anymore

This isn't a "Beta" where everything is set in stone and they're just showing off everything. This is an old style Beta where things are still actually being adjusted each round. If you took the feedback page and reviewed the 15 posts there, you'd get at least the equivalent of 30+ 8x11 pages worth of solid text out of them, just on feedback and bug reports.

The only rationalization you've brought up that's even remotely convincing is not having the experience spoiled for you. The fact that you keep asking questions about the beta is killing the credibility of that claim. (You're trying to not spoil yourself by asking questions that are going to spoil how the game is and jumping to conclusions on the responses to complain about it? ...Um, OK...)

And, as a side note, when you've demonstrating a desire to complain and illustrated that you want to complain more without getting what you'd expect as an automatic response, you're not presenting a very flattering picture of yourself.

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#42 Jun 29 2013 at 1:53 AM Rating: Good

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Parathyroid wrote:

I feel like XIV is a crossbreed between XI and WoW, so I completely can relate to people not liking this game. It just so happens that I'm at a different time in my life where a game like this is EXACTLY what I've been looking for.

If I want some time consuming content, it's there... if I want to do something that will take 20 minutes or less because that's all the time I have... it's also there!

A game that allows you to have a life too? You dirty casual Smiley: sly

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

"Plus, what game in the world is for everyone?"

Tetris.

Tehneleven wrote:

Please .. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ... Nobody spells the as "teh" anymore. PLEASE STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mmmk.

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:

30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:

Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.

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#43 Jun 29 2013 at 3:23 AM Rating: Excellent

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Hyrist wrote:

I was just browsing the Feedback Forums in the Beta forums earlier, looking for comments to like and comment on to help better feedback.

When I stumbeled upon this little 'gem.' Smiley: disappointed

After seeing it, in the official feedback section, I do have to agree that you're probably better off outside of this game. ARR is likely not for you, at least not at this time.

In the future of your beta testing other games, however, please understand that feedback is a place to make suggestions and list concerns, not to overtly complain.

Clearly he doesn't know how the feedback section works.. Smiley: disappointed

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#44 Jun 29 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Default

DuoMaxwellxx

5,055 posts

Ravashack wrote:

This isn't a "Beta" where everything is set in stone and they're just showing off everything. This is an old style Beta where things are still actually being adjusted each round.

exactly and maybe some of the things in the beta right no would be an issue for me (such as the constant freezing or pop up lag rate in the ps3 version ppl talk about) thus Id rather wait til release where all that stuff should then be FIXED and make the experience much more enjoyable, whereas if it ISNT fixed by release then anyone who complains about it at that point would be justified whereas complaining about a beta or saying a beta of a game "sucks" is unjustified because its a beta.. there are SUPPOSED to be things wrong with it.. which are supposed to be found by players and then taken care of for actual release.. In otherwords "dont judge a game by its beta" Which is why you never see critics review a game during its beta phase.. they always wait until its released, play it thoroughly and THEN pass judgement.

Quote:

The only rationalization you've brought up that's even remotely convincing is not having the experience spoiled for you. The fact that you keep asking questions about the beta is killing the credibility of that claim. (You're trying to not spoil yourself by asking questions that are going to spoil how the game is and jumping to conclusions on the responses to complain about it? ...Um, OK...)

And, as a side note, when you've demonstrating a desire to complain and illustrated that you want to complain more without getting what you'd expect as an automatic response, you're not presenting a very flattering picture of yourself.

No because the questions I ask are hardly spoilerific. Im not asking about story content. Im not looking at screenshots or watching video walkthrough of the trek from 1 to 25, I have no idea what to expect when I do a guildleve, FATE, guildhest (or is it behest), grand company/free company stuff.. no idea what the layout of or exploring my first city will look/be like. The stuff I ask about is like the equivalent of reading the back of a book. How much of the book does doing that spoil for you? I still have PLENTY of surprises to see

Also even if i DID know EVERYTHING.. knowing about it and actually seeing/experiencing it are two very different thing.. Ive had the endings on movies and stuff spoiled for me. Yet after seeing the movie... seeing how it GOT to that point (the end) was still worth it and surprising despite me already knowing how it would end) or having the fact spoiled that certain character in a show would die.Knowing that beforehand I figured wouldnt care/it would effect me because I knew it was gonna happen. however teh story was so well written and that character was so well developed that you actually gave a damn about him... so when he DID die even though I already knew it was gonna happen, it was still done well enough that I actually cried (lol)... mainly because of his daughter's reactions during teh funeral/burial and the questions she was asking... little kids seeing death for the first time is quite sad. (bonus point for anyone who knows what Im talking about.. which I would think half of the people on this board SHOULD know) Point being just because you know a few things in advance, depending on how well done its done you can still be taken by surprise.

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#45 Jun 29 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent

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Duo, the beta does a good job of keeping the spoilers down. The story ends just short of a cliffhanger, giving players enough to drool for phase 4 ,and the blocked areas are numerous.

Now is the time to complain. Now is the time to let all your nitpicking out, on the beta forums. Release is NOT the time to do that. Help make the game better, not complain because "what you wanted wasn't done," at release.

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#46 DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Jun 29 2013 at 4:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well i know teh WHOLE story isnt gonna be shown in the beta... i dont want ANY of it spoiled by playing teh beta.. as for the feedback forums in FFXIV.. umm I can ASSURE you what ID want done would NOT happen in the 2 months between now and the games release in August.. that would be like ppl in FFXI beta complaining about lack of content then expect Dynamis to be in release.. umm how long was FFXI out before we got dynamis? yeah... exactly.

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#47 Jun 29 2013 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent

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Louiscool wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

WFOAssassin wrote:

Adzieboy wrote:

The time consuming content will likely be when you start to actively level another job without the quests to give you the boost.

Good point. However, all three cities have those beginner quests. So, you can level three jobs kina fast but after that its grind time on monsters and FATEs for the other jobs. Which unless you only want to play one job will take a while.

what? but i thought this game was ALL about leveling through the use of quests and simply beating on monsters to level up was an optional but outdated concept? what happened to the casual approach? no WoW players wanna take days/weeks maxing out job... Also as for starting cities quests so I can waltz up to another starting city and do their quests? I thought you were restricted to whatever city your first class starts in? (i know you can GO to other cities but I wasnt aware you could do their quests)

Duo, you need to get a grip bud. That topic was weeks ago in internet time! Lick your wounds and move on!

I will answer you as if there wasn't 10 tons of sarcasm in it:

You can level through the beginning of each nation quest, and various misc quests in each nation. Eventually all nation quests become the same (about the time you are required to group up for dungeons and ifrit fight, ect)

Then, if you want to level a second and third class, there will be quests in other nations but its no longer about quest chaining. You will have to do FATE, Dungeons, Guildhests (which are complex and challenging guildleves that REQUIRE 4 or more players in a party) and guildleves (Which are about the only things on this list that are soloable, and you are limited to how many you can do based on time), and hunting logs.

The initial quest-chain fest is a glorified tutorial that lasts fairly long. I completed all of the beta storyline and it ended at 20. By 20, I was already REQUIRED to group up for 4 different story missions. It's safe to assume that this will only increase as the story progresses.

Lastly, you are able to join a Grand Company at that time, which you can then take part in Grand Company leves (I haven't done these yet) to earn rank and glory and credits for gear.

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 11:59am by Louiscool

There is an elegant beauty to this design.

Let's say you want to try several, if not all classes, but you still hate the thought of grinding out extra ones on a single char, you could optionally create other characters (this time without paying for them) and story-chain your way through them quickly and painlessly. It really does offer a lot of consideration to different playing styles.

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#48 Jun 29 2013 at 11:17 PM Rating: Default

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Louiscool wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.

Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)

Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

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#49 Jun 30 2013 at 12:11 AM Rating: Default

DuoMaxwellxx

5,055 posts

Ostia wrote:

Louiscool wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.

Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)

Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?

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#50 Jun 30 2013 at 12:16 AM Rating: Excellent

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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

Keysofgaruda wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

WFOAssassin wrote:

Adzieboy wrote:

The time consuming content will likely be when you start to actively level another job without the quests to give you the boost.

Good point. However, all three cities have those beginner quests. So, you can level three jobs kina fast but after that its grind time on monsters and FATEs for the other jobs. Which unless you only want to play one job will take a while.

what? but i thought this game was ALL about leveling through the use of quests and simply beating on monsters to level up was an optional but outdated concept? what happened to the casual approach? no WoW players wanna take days/weeks maxing out job... Also as for starting cities quests so I can waltz up to another starting city and do their quests? I thought you were restricted to whatever city your first class starts in? (i know you can GO to other cities but I wasnt aware you could do their quests)

This game wasn't remade to cater to WoW players. It was remade for final fantasy fans and people who enjoyed XI. If this game doesn't have what you want go play something that does.

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.

Based on my spell check's sea of red, it would seem you my friend are the one with some editing to do!

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#51 Jun 30 2013 at 2:30 AM Rating: Default

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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

Ostia wrote:

Louiscool wrote:

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.

Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)

Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?

The game is 2 months away from release :) If you think they are going to overhaul the combat system between here and there, you are either insane, or you do not know how beta Works! You could not do a dungeon in Beta WOW, Vanilla WOW, TBC WOW, WOLKT WOW, CATA WOW, PANDA WOW w/o a healer, at current level of the dungeon, the combat system is sad, but is a shadow of the real 2 problems, encounter design, and class balance.

Have you even played the beta ?

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Good Luck in Eorzea!Follow