have you heard about BLM 68 with out Sleepga II? >_>;;Follow

well, the way he acted was very selfish. but you can't expect everyone to be good and have every single spell. the last i checked, sleepga II was over 500k and the quest for it requires an alliance of 70+ in boyahda.

TO ALL BLMS OUT THERE:

Sleepga II is a necessary spell.
* Without it nobody will want you in dynamis nor for BCs. Plus you will make links in XP parties that much harder. It is also necessary in a number of other cases.

TO ALL WHMS OUT THERE:

Erase is a necessary spell.
* You will use it. A lot. It is necessary. Even in lower levels. "Blackmage gains the effect of Dia." Oh crap -_-! I know its expensive but please save for it the best you can. You will need it a lot.

TO ALL RDMS OUT THERE:

Dispel is a necessary spell.
* Lots of mobs will use effects that reduce physical or magic damage. You must dispel all these amongst other things. Will it dispel blink/utsusemi? No, use a -ga spell for that (unless other mobs are around). But in many cases it is still very necessary. Less expensive of the 3 but still expensive enough that it stops some RDMs. GET IT or I will never invite you again if you don't have it. ^_~

Ok? Ok.

Hopefully this clears it all up. ^_~

At risk of my rating I will weigh in on this...

<,< (checks rating)

Looking at sigs we have a PLD, WHM/BRD, DRG, Morn has a 75 BLM and RDM. Being this is my main I will speak to the matter but not defend him.

ES-less Sleepga? WTF? ok thats just dumb.

@68 not having Sleepga2...well first off how did he get to ZM6 without it? ZM4 should have required that? What rank was he? Who set the party up that didn't check to make sure you had everything.

I personally did not have ga2 till I did Rank 7 and probally 63ish. Some BLMs can't farm worth a damn (I include myself in that)and when we hit 50 alot of stuff comes into play, Staffs (150k+ NQ..HQ u can imagine), Gear, Spells(non refundable), Elem. Torques (900k+), Pen. Rope (1 milish), Druid Slops (600k+)... so on so forth. Point is all Jobs have expenses some cut to get the essentials and avoid the "luxury gear." Does that make them a noob? or is it the player that makes up the difference.

Now this guys behavior- Noobish yes, very. Maybe an account buyer.

I personally know of a Ranger @ 70, that I believe is. I will not however disclose his name. Till that time I just wont party with him. But to throw out names cause a guy pisses you off seems a bit wrong to me just my opinion.

As for everything else some spells are required Dispel, Erase, ect. Some are not (spikes, most AM, poisonga). And some are circumstantial. For BCNM, Rank7+, ZM Sleepga2 is needed.

Lastly, In some areas sleepga2 or 1 on links (Bibiki Bay, Rabbits anyone)is not only a bad idea but you usually end up dead.




Edited, Mon Apr 4 18:18:49 2005 by OmegaManOne

Edited, Mon Apr 4 18:25:15 2005 by OmegaManOne

Well for erase i can't always expect a WHM to have it unfortunately. Cause the vast majority do not have it until the high 60s in levels. But by the time you reach dynamis + HNMs/tiula it is a requirement. Sorry, but it is. Some WHMs do not understand how useful this spell really is so believe that 500k is not worth it. To be honest... I used to share this view when I was newer to the game and had not seen everything that I had. Wish I could expect it... but initially I was also at fault. But mid-50s I got it finally (while I was leveling brd got it through BC40 o_o).

But for dispel and sleepga II? I used those right away at the level. But true, I had more gil at the time >_>; I'll agree though that in many leveling situations sleepga ii is not necessary. However in some it helps at the odd time. And in BCs + Dynamis... it helps a ton. And is a necessity. It'll save your party. Sleepga II is a necessity for kindred seal BCs at 75 too. You can make a HELL of a lot more than 500k.
So if your worry is gil... think of it as an investment for the future. ^_~

wow, just wow, quit lying.
I am the RNG75 who was helping in that mission, yes Auronsan didnt have Sleepga II but everything else you said is complete ********* And i can get the other people who were with us in the PT to post here if anybody wants a proof.

1st of all, your WHM friend didnt have all the fragments and couldnt get in the BC, and i guess thats like, 5x times dumber than not having Sleepga II.

2ndly, he did use ES befor casting Sleepga, if you are blind / duff why play the game?

3rd thing, you died from flood only, quit trying to look hard.

4th of everything you didnt have Echo drops, you knew that the BC did Silence-ga spell and still you didnt bring any, and the BLM casted warp on himself so he go and get the other mages Echo drops so we give the BC another shot.
Plus, he didnt harras me or harrased anybody else in the PT exept you, cos you, mr "hay guyz look at me i take tornado + flood at the same time lolz!1" kept calling him names for 5 hours straight.

Quit lying please, I dunno the BLM and I don't give a rats *** about what you think becouse all you do is lie.

Edited, Tue Apr 5 15:17:57 2005 by WithinTemptation

Edited, Tue Apr 5 15:19:01 2005 by WithinTemptation

Wiccatu: being in GLLS you probably know as well as I do how necessary those spells are especially at endgame.

Also every job has something expensive to save up for. Do you know how many melee will role their eyes of they hear a mage say "I didn't get dispel... 100k is too much." Heck even with erase or sleepga ii... same thing.

Want to knoe a usual melees costs?
2x Sniper Ring = 1 million (500k each, sometimes more)
Haubergon = 1.7mil

Thats just 3 pieces of gear. Theres lots more gear where that came from. And these pieces of gear are considered necessities by many melee. The majority of them will work hard and farm for them the moment they hit 59/60.
So mages are expected to just ride and not earn the gil for their expensive spells?

I know its not easy and it is a pain. Melees and everyone can respect the hard work and effort put into it. However... for the sake of ones own party it is expected to work hard for a few necessities.

How much is a whms necessities btw?

Light staff = 150k
Dark staff = 100k
Erase = 500k
(Even cheaper for blms and rdms)

750k for mages vs 2.7mil.

Most melees get their necessities. Why don't mages? That is something I do not understand despite that I myself am a mage. I'll maybe let it slide not getting it right away (unless it is dispel)... but you should get it soon.

Tiffie: agreed ^_^ Plus ancient magic isn't that useful anyway :P They're just for fun. Casting individual spells is better. BLM57, I never casted an ancient spell unless just for fun. XD But they don't compare to casting a couple normals. And sides, ancient = waaay more mp and waaay more hate.

Edited, Tue Apr 5 16:45:24 2005 by Chibihibi

Ok first off a BLM is expected to have ALL the staffs with maybe the exception of light. (if light back to 150k then I might get it. But for awhile there was closer to 300k)

At 60
7 staffs around 780 avg.
M.Talthum of your choice 100+k
P. Rope 900k
V. Cloak 1.2 Mil (most go with AF)
Genius rings (if memory serves) 500k for both may be more now

Spells (can never sell back)
ga2-500k
Warp2 (try not having that at 40) 90-100k



Think your numbers maybe off. More like 3.5 vs. 2.7
we can compare till the end of time, but please don't minimize expenses. Give equal consideration to each job.

btw; Dispell 80-100k from NPC depending on fame.



Do all Melees have Scop Harness+1 or Hauby when they can? No everyone has for farm for it or worse they buy gil. I would rather they farm for it than the latter. But I will always side on its the player not the gear that makes you good.


Yes and Melees pls have sneak oils and Powders too :P

Sounds to me liuke this thread has been resolved the OP was mad shot a response here.

so my final thoughts in this thread.. FARM for what you need, Get it when you can AND never buy gil!!

^^b

Wic, I just think it's a viscious cycle with the prices. Every job has something overpriced that they need to pay for, so they are going to try to make the money as quick as possible. If a melee who needs their rings or whatever gets a hold of erase or sleepga II, they are going to sell it at current selling price instead of cheaper because they need that money to get their stuff. And just because they are nice and don't gouge doesn't mean they won't be gouged. It sucks. And it'd be nice if we could stop hiking up the prices all the way around.

I think the other thing that needs to happen is people need to reevaluate needed items and luxury items, especially when they don't have the money to pay for everything. Elemental torque is a relatively new item. Many blms hit 75 without it on the very same mobs we are now fighting. Sure, it's great to have and it will help you perform better, but it's not 100% needed. You can do your job without it. You can't always do your job if you are missing a spell.

Vermy, imo, another luxury item. I can't wait until I get mine and I know it will benefit my parties in some cases. But it's not like they are hurting because I don't have it.

Same with staves. They are great to have, but there was a time not too long ago when most people didn't get a complete set til they had at least one job at end game. Dark is definately a must to keep downtime to a minimal. And the others provide wonderful benefits. But if I have a blm in my party, I want them to have the essential spells over the staves. What's the point of having the added effectiveness from the staves if you don't have the spells to have the added effectiveness with?

I guess what I'm saying is there are some items that it sucks to level without and there are some that if you level without you can really hurt your party. Everyone understands that every job has to spend way too much to level. Just try to prioritize the spending in what is most useful. And for mages, that's spells. We are invited because we have cool equipment, we are invited because we can cast.

It's the sad mentality of most MMORPG gamers nowadays.

In general, people won't accept anything but very good equipment as the standard by which they judge everyone else.

Unfortunately, people use that having fun over it feeling like a job excuse to not have even the most basic things. I remember my last trip to the dunes, I ran into someone in starter RSE and had starter weapon. His excuse was he didn't have time to farm for equipment and he just wanted to level, but yet he couldn't figure out why he was getting booted from every party he joined.

The game isn't fun if you skimp on the things that help your party the most. Dying over and over because you couldn't sleep a link or hit a mob sucks. Not getting party invites because you don't level your sub or you don't upgrade your gear, sucks. It's not fun.

So while I'm all for the fun first thing, remember, you actually have to work a little to have some fun. And with all of the ways to make money in this game, there has to be one that you find fun.

Seriously, Who cares if the BLM doesnt have Sleepga2 @lvl68.. i know its a must spell, but you can beat ZM6 without it-.- if you say you cant, you are a n00b, having Sleepga 2 does helps alo though..

2nd, Stop tlaking about what job cost more-.-.. go lvl RNG or NIN.. Then talk about it.. you guys dont spend nearly half the money RNG and NIN spends on tools, bolts and arrows -.-

3rd, You said you are there to help.. so even if you die, you dont need to complain.. its a price to pay sometime helping out friends.. if you dont like it, dont help!!..

-.- This is why I want quit this damn game, bunch ******* whining people.. think they are god just because they got a ******* high lvl and ranking, and you had to do it their ways, and think htey gonna get stuffs before you..(I'm not even gonna name the ******* 3 Ninja suppose to help to get O-hat, just because your friend lost at random 4 times, and doesnt mean you have to ******* leave the pt just before the fight -.-, and yes im 0/3 on it now(1.5mil lost>.<))

See, that's the thing. Not really, it's not.

It is if you choose to fight exactly the same mobs and hope to get 4k+/hour as people who do have that equipment.

Problem is, people don't want to differ at all from the norm. It's entirely and completely possible to chain VT/lower IT even as low as level 55-60. Hell, we all do it once we reach 72+ anyways. You don't need expensive equipment like Haubergeon or Sniper's Rings to perform well, get in a decent xp/hour, etc.

Generally if a melee does not have any expensive gear then he is not contributing much to a party by level 60+. I've experienced drks with and without a haubergon. WARs have been able to live without it in some cases (depending on gear -- they are a lil more flexible due to higher acc) but most melee (DRKs, SAMs, etc) cannot. The difference is just far too significant. Maybe if you have a brd it might not be so bad... but without? BRDs are quite rare as I see while leveling other jobs.

There are expensive necessities for every job. But not as much as what some expect of course. ^^ Like I won't expect a melee to have multi-million gil weapons when theres alternatives lol thats the prob with haubergon. No real cheap alternative. Snipers are starting to get some cheap alternatives at least though.