Game of Thrones: Season 5Follow

The throat-clearing (and throat-cutting) continues.

I'm most interested to see how the show diverges from the books this season. Rumor has it that several not-so-minor characters will be either omitted or created to further the plot, and we're quickly approaching the end of the storyline from the released novels. Apparently GRRM is having a sad about it, because he cancelled a lot of his upcoming public speaking engagements to focus on actually getting the 6th book published before the next season airs about a year from now. However, there's no feasible way he can release the 7th and final (planned) novel before the 7th TV season begins.

Arya in Bravvos straight killin' dudes is going to be great.

I would like to know how they got the dragons down into that pyramid and chained, without getting everyone killed.

He's got time, I think. Well, not based on his past rate, but if he actually focused on writing, he could probably get it done in time. Assuming they go with the same "two seasons per book" that they did for book 3, we're looking at 4 more years before the TV series starts into the content in book 6. If he gets book 6 done by next year, then that gives him 3 years to finish book 7. That's tight for him, but potentially doable.

They could also stretch out the seasons a bit more as well. There's a cost issue involved, but they could include more details from the series and stretch the remaining books into 3 seasons each. Let's not forget that each season is only 10 episodes long, so this isn't really that crazy given the size of the books. Also GRRM puts a *ton* of detail in there. The biggest issue isn't really whether they could do this, but whether they can manage it from a budget perspective. the costs aren't just about numbers of episodes, but the size of the cast. If you notice what things they change from the books, it's almost always about trimming things so as to reduce the number of on screen talking roles. It's far less expensive to have an already contracted actor fill in some dialog or action that was performed by some other minor character in the book than to cast and hire an actor for that purpose.

Then again, his cast of characters just keeps growing (faster than he kills them off), so they're already straining to figure out how to do the story without bloating the cast too much. In any case, it'll be interesting to see what they do.



Yeah. Totally looking forward to her upcoming stuff.

The Tyrion - Varys scenes as well as the Cersei - Jaime scene were great. The rest was okay. I'm sad they did not go the same way the books took with SpoilerMance Rayder and killed him of this early. But if I recall correctly he died a bit later in the books anyway, so the difference is not that big.

For all we know, it might be boring even after Dance!

This is part of the books I expect they'll excise. Nobody wants to watch Tyrion on a boat for a whole season, just like nobody wanted to watch Theon get his bits cut off for a whole season.

Edited, Apr 15th 2015 6:35pm by Demea

I thought the deviations from the book as of the first episode of the season were pretty interesting. Might as well spoil some...

Jaime Spoilergoing to Dorne at the end of last season. He seems to be taking the place of Arys Oakheart, who is not in the show if I recall.

Sansa and Littlefinger Spoilerheading... somewhere. My money is on Winterfell. Jeyne Poole is also not in the show, or at least not where she's supposed to be right now. I think that Littlefinger has it in mind that he'll bring Sansa to Winterfell, reveal herself as a Stark, marry her to Ramsay, and thus secure the North for his interests. Of course he doesn't realize that Ramsay is a psychopath or that he's kept Theon as a pet... out of the Joffrey frying pan and into the *******'s fire, eh Sansa?

Varys and Tyrion Spoilerare together across the sea... isn't the Spider supposed to hang around King's Landing to kill Kevan Lannister? Maybe he'll head back later in the season if he and Tyrion split up. And where's Illyrio?

Brienne Spoilerreally needs to stop moping and start looking around... ugh, that "missed connections" scene was brutally hilarious!

Cersei Spoilerand her prophecy were changed. They left out what most consider the crucial part: that she is to be strangled by the valonqar, which is Valarian for "younger brother." This could either be a HUGE change... or it'll be revealed in another flashback later on, as this one cut off right after receiving the first part of it.

That's all I noticed from watching, I'm sure I missed more. And I hate Show Loras. Book Loras was an amazing knight and fiercely devoted to his family and Renly. Also pretty smart. Show Loras is a one-dimensional gay stereotype. They flattened the character. Blech.

Edited, Apr 16th 2015 7:32am by LockeColeMA

Hah. Didn't notice the flayed man symbol on top of the turret thingie the first time. Nice.

So Brienne and Pod are just riding around Moat Cailin? Isn't the whole point of that place that you can't get around? Not counting the marsh-people who have their secrets paths. I think they even established that in the show in season 4 when Ramsay was tasked with conquering that keep.

Minor detail but I hope they don't just stroll around for a while and then arrive in the north.

The rest of the episode was pretty good. Stannis was great as were the Boltons.

Well, that got ugly really quick. I'm thinking Cersei's "let's empower religious fanatics to pursue some petty revenge" is going to end up being a horrible mistake, given the glass house she's living in. Didn't like how they were introduced in the series that much though. Bit too sudden. A formerly unheard of group of people become strong enough to face down the king in like 1.1 episodes? I get that there are political aspects to all of this, but they're presumably empowered by the crown, and presumably know this. It's not like every one of them knows that they're working for Cersei and not Tommin and are in on her secret plans, so it seemed odd that they were so willing to rudely rebuff him like that. Dunno, just seemed kind of oddly done. Although, it did serve as a scary hint of things to come.

The bit with Jorah and Tyrion was more or less as expected. Dany's storyline is going slowly, but that's to be expected as well. Part of me kinda wants them to get on with it, but then I remember that she's basically just back story until the final act anyway. I like that they're at least doing *something* with her story along the way.

Littlefinger has rapidly leveled up to be my favorite character. Just the right amount of evil. I love how he's basically set things up so that no matter who "wins" in the North, he wins. Technically, he's set it up so Sansa wins either way, but I'm sure he's not really just looking out for her best interests. Although, I'm sure there's a fly or three in that ointment.

This has been an odd season so far. Stuff happens in each episode. And plots are advanced. But it doesn't seem like anything is really happening though. Waiting for the other foot to fall in Kings Landing. Waiting for Stannis/John to move forward. Waiting for Danny to figure out what she wants to be. And waiting for a few other tidbits we all know are coming to appear as well (c'mon you all know what I'm talking about). I get the feeling they're going to string us along for 8 episodes, then have a flurry of action and reveals, and then make us wait another year to see the results.

Hey. Yup. Saw that coming. I like it from a story point of view, but the whole Sparrow bit is coming off a bit strained. Maybe Cersei really is just that obsessed with petty revenges and slights that she'd empower people she should have known would turn on her. But it does seem a bit out of character, given that up until now she's been portrayed as an at least relatively competent political manipulator. Apparently she loses her ability to be intelligent when confronted with a good smirk. Still have the same issue with these guys suddenly becoming this unstoppable political force in such a short time. If there's one thing GoT does portray well is that power is often illusory and fleeting. But this really rides that edge. Hard.

Same deal with the conversation between the high sparrow guy and Olenna Tyrell. Here's a woman who's presumably far far more politically savvy than Cersei, yet she also came off like a stammering child when dealing with him. I'd like to think that she's just letting him think he's getting one over on her, and giving him enough rope for his own hypocrisy to come crashing down on him. His whole "we are the many, you are the few" bit might work when he and his followers were not actually endowed with any power. Now that they are, I suspect he'll find that "the people" aren't going to be so willing to fall in line behind him, especially when the food his folks are handing out dwindles and they have to start choosing who to help. He's rapidly becoming one of "the few", and I'm not sure he realizes it (he's got to know he's being politically selective with his application of religious laws, so he's not really the honest religious fanatic he pretends to be, so it's unclear what his end game is, or if he really has one). But it's a fantasy world, so who knows what'll happen. It would be funny as hell for his own followers to turn on him and then actually start applying the laws, judiciously and fanatically, to everyone equally. Kaboom!

Oh. And poor poor Sansa. Although I suspect Ramsay's going to meet a bad end as a result of all this. Not sure exactly how that'll happen, but I'd put good odds on it being a woman who does it (and I see three obvious possibilities). Not sure how Theon will ultimately play into it though. It'll be fun to watch either way.

I have not read the books. But I really want Theon to be the one to kill Ramsey. Would be even better than watching Jophery choke on poison.

You understand incorrectly. She encountered Lancel in the first episode of the season, during the funeral of Tywin (he's Tywin's nephew, after all). The whole deal with him showing up barefoot and in robes at the funeral was the introduction of the Sparrows as a group. Cersei most definitely knew that the very 1st cousin she'd been having sex with back in season 2 (and may or may not have conspired with to kill Robert Baratheon in season 1) was one of the followers of the man she was counting on to apply strict religious rules in order to imprison Loras and Margaery.

So yeah, it was monumentally stupid for her to do what she did.



It's unclear what her entire motives were, but I think ******** over her rivals was high at the top of the list. I also think, that in her own twisted mind, she was doing it to consolidate and/or hold onto power. Hence, the whole shrinking small council bit. She intentionally sent away or eliminated anyone who might be a rival to her holding direct power in King's Landing. Unfortunately for her, while she's an above average political manipulator, she's a crappy leader (and not too great at seeing down the road). I assume she empowered the High Sparrow specifically because it would eliminate the existing High Septon (a potential rival), while giving her a tool to eliminate Margaery's power over Tommin. Note also, that she replaced the original Grand Maester with that necromancer guy as well. She's basically cleaned house of everyone who has existing political power. Pretty clear pattern of behavior. But it's also a really stupid pattern for her to follow since she's replacing known entities with ones that she can't predict.

Surprise!



I think there was some of this. But it was because she saw hypocrisy (selective application of the religious laws) in his own actions. I think what she didn't realize was that he either didn't realize this, or didn't care to admit that he was doing this and thus she could not negotiate with him in that manner. I think she came out of that, not thinking he was a fake, but now thinking that he's a fool. A dangerous fool, but still a fool.



The Tyrell's are in a different kingdom though. Where, presumably, the Sparrows don't have the same kind of power. His people are in Kings Landing. Her's are back in her own kingdom. It's pretty unlikely that he's going to be able to create some kind of rebellion back in her lands among the common folk because she's chosen to keep the food they've grown at home rather than send it as tribute (more or less) to Kings Landing. I'm not even sure how that would happen. "Rise up and fight the evil oppressors because they aren't taking our food away from us and giving it to strangers across the continent as part of a political deal that benefits just the rich nobles". Just not seeing that resonate.

The only threat he has is that he is currently holding both of her children. And that's not about honest religious belief. It's about taking hostages. So yeah, hypocrisy on his part. The question is whether knows this and is playing the part of a true believer, or is deluding himself about the legitimacy of his own beliefs, while being drawn into politically oriented actions that directly conflict with those beliefs. I kinda got out of their conversation that Olenna was/is trying to figure that out. And may have gotten her answer. Still not clear on that though.



No, he isn't. As Olenna correctly pointed out, if he was, he'd be rounding up sinful commoners by the hundreds, right off the streets around him, rather than feeding and tending to them (ie: buying their support). He's clearly looking the other way when it comes to judging those he needs for support (the common people), while cheerfully going after those he sees as enemies (the nobility). He's acting on political motivations, not religious ones. As I said earlier, the only question is whether he realizes this, and is playing his own political game, or is blind to his own hypocrisy.

Only two episodes left this season. That went fast...