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Not a bad start to the season. Oberyn Martell was pretty spot on, though the actor seemed a bit too young. I'm pretty sick of Sansa's whining, but I was pretty sick of Sansa's whining at this point in the books too. Arya is getting scary, which is a good thing. Dany's scenes were pretty uninteresting, but so is Dany at this point in the story, so I'm not sure what else they can do with her. Since I already know what is going to happen at Joffrey's wedding, I don't have much patient with the scenes that are leading up to it, but aside from that, I'm looking forward to see what this season has in store.
I just don't want Jaime to go back to being someone we hate. I kind of like liking him now. And yes, I was glad to see even more of Arya's transformation into murderous psychopath. And her horse.
Turin wrote:
Not a bad start to the season. Oberyn Martell was pretty spot on, though the actor seemed a bit too young.
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Arya is getting scary, which is a good thing.
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Dany's scenes were pretty uninteresting, but so is Dany at this point in the story, so I'm not sure what else they can do with her.
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Since I already know what is going to happen at Joffrey's wedding, I don't have much patient with the scenes that are leading up to it, but aside from that, I'm looking forward to see what this season has in store.
I feel like the tv story is implying that Gramma Tyrell is far more the puppet- master than I had ever gotten from the books.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
Quote:
Arya is getting scary, which is a good thing.
Even in the books I felt like she kind of jumped from "little girl" to "stabbing people with Needle" a little too quickly for me to follow.
Edited, Apr 7th 2014 11:05am by IDrownFish
In case you missed Season 3.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
What a lovely wedding. So much playful banter. 
TherealLogros wrote:
What a lovely wedding. So much playful banter.
It was interesting watching the camera pan all the different faces during the dwarf show. It was almost like a little mini-reveal of who is is an actual good guy and who is a bad guy in the mind of JRRM.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Elinda wrote:
It was interesting watching the camera pan all the different faces during the dwarf show. It was almost like a little mini-reveal of who is is an actual good guy and who is a bad guy in the mind of JGRRM.
I especially liked Varys' smirk when Tyrion ridiculed Joffrey.
Quote:
It was interesting watching the camera pan all the different faces during the dwarf show. It was almost like a little mini-reveal of who is is an actual good guy and who is a bad guy in the mind of JRRM.
More like who's a sadistic moron and who isn't, really. I don't think anyone thinks of Tywin as a good guy.
So, what're your thoughts on the Purple Wedding? Who did it?
I'm talking about Joffrey's death, of course, and I'm leaning towards this theory: http://imgur.com/a/wzN8x
I'm talking about Joffrey's death, of course, and I'm leaning towards this theory: http://imgur.com/a/wzN8x
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
So is this discussion for non-book readers only? Even then, I thought it was pretty obvious...
◕ ‿‿ ◕
I was surprised that they did the wedding so early in the season. I thought that it would have been closer to episode five or six. Now that I think about it, there isn't a whole lot of material left from Storm of Swords to play with. Unless they add a bunch of non-book material, they'll pretty much have to add a bit of Feast for Crows into the season.
If you really want to know, it was Olenna Tyrell. The jeweled hairnet that Sansa was gifted by Sir Dontos had a gem made of poison, which Olenna palmed when she was fixing Sansa's hair. She dropped it into the wine when everyone was distracted by the confrontation between Joffrey and Tyrion. Sansa handling the cup is a bit of red herring. Tyrion is the obvious suspect, though he really did have nothing to do with it. Sansa's disappearance from the capital thanks to Sir Dontos's warning, doesn't help his case much. Sansa is eventually taken to the Eyrie by Littlefinger, who by that point has married Lysa. Most of the rest of this season, the King's Landing bits will focus on Tyrion's trial. It's actually a tad more convoluted in the book than that, but that's basic plot.
Edited, Apr 15th 2014 5:56pm by Turin
Mazra wrote:
So, what're your thoughts on the Purple Wedding? Who did it?
I'm talking about Joffrey's death, of course, and I'm leaning towards this theory: http://imgur.com/a/wzN8x
I'm talking about Joffrey's death, of course, and I'm leaning towards this theory: http://imgur.com/a/wzN8x
If you really want to know, it was Olenna Tyrell. The jeweled hairnet that Sansa was gifted by Sir Dontos had a gem made of poison, which Olenna palmed when she was fixing Sansa's hair. She dropped it into the wine when everyone was distracted by the confrontation between Joffrey and Tyrion. Sansa handling the cup is a bit of red herring. Tyrion is the obvious suspect, though he really did have nothing to do with it. Sansa's disappearance from the capital thanks to Sir Dontos's warning, doesn't help his case much. Sansa is eventually taken to the Eyrie by Littlefinger, who by that point has married Lysa. Most of the rest of this season, the King's Landing bits will focus on Tyrion's trial. It's actually a tad more convoluted in the book than that, but that's basic plot.
Edited, Apr 15th 2014 5:56pm by Turin
The actors and actresses didn't actually know about the Dwarf War (which sounds like a book series I would totally read).
You could see Cersi's actress was struggling to not laugh, which fits her character perfectly.
Spoilers in the article.
Quote:
"The moment where the dwarves came out, we didn't actually know what was going to happen," said Loras Tyrell actor Finn Jones. "The director said, 'I don't want to tell you what's going to happen. Just react to it.' They came out, and it was shocking."
You could see Cersi's actress was struggling to not laugh, which fits her character perfectly.
Spoilers in the article.
Does it make me a bad person if I laughed at some bits of the Dwarf War (I like that) too? 
Dwarf-Stannis riding a Melisandre-mount and Dwarf-Renly riding a Loras Tyrell-mount were just hilarious.
Dwarf-Stannis riding a Melisandre-mount and Dwarf-Renly riding a Loras Tyrell-mount were just hilarious.Just caught up. I'll miss the Joffrey vs. Tyrion scenes. Those absolutely oozed tension.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Turin wrote:
IIf you really want to know, it was Olenna Tyrell. The jeweled hairnet that Sansa was gifted by Sir Dontos had a gem made of poison, which Olenna palmed when she was fixing Sansa's hair. She dropped it into the wine when everyone was distracted by the confrontation between Joffrey and Tyrion. Sansa handling the cup is a bit of red herring. Tyrion is the obvious suspect, though he really did have nothing to do with it. Sansa's disappearance from the capital thanks to Sir Dontos's warning, doesn't help his case much. Sansa is eventually taken to the Eyrie by Littlefinger, who by that point has married Lysa. Most of the rest of this season, the King's Landing bits will focus on Tyrion's trial. It's actually a tad more convoluted in the book than that, but that's basic plot.
Ok. Not having read the books (yet. Seriously have them waiting, but have a list of other stuff to read in the way), this kinda doesn't make much sense. Unless she's really just that upset about the whole mixing and matching of marriages by Tywin and is willing to more or less toss any connection to the Throne in the trash out of spite, that is. From a political perspective, wouldn't it have made a hell of a lot more sense to wait until her daughter had a child (preferably a son) by Joffrey, then kill him? Then it would be her daughter acting as Queen Regent, not Cersei, and her family most able to influence the future king.
Seems like by killing Joffrey, she's just handed the Lannisters more control (and a more manageable king). She basically just made Tywin that much more powerful. Maybe I'm missing something that was explained more clearly/fully in the books, but I'm just not seeing any sense to her action here at all. Her character doesn't seem to be one given to rash actions. Now, at least based on what's been in the show, it's leaning more towards Little Finger, which actually makes a hell of a lot more sense. He's always been someone more interested in some degree of stability (or chaos he can control), and may be more inclined towards a power structure he's more familiar with (the Lannisters) compared to the Tyrells. Plus, I suspect he'd kill pretty much anyone to steal away Sansa. So there's that.
Edited, Apr 21st 2014 3:08pm by gbaji
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
gbaji wrote:
Turin wrote:
IIf you really want to know, it was Olenna Tyrell. The jeweled hairnet that Sansa was gifted by Sir Dontos had a gem made of poison, which Olenna palmed when she was fixing Sansa's hair. She dropped it into the wine when everyone was distracted by the confrontation between Joffrey and Tyrion. Sansa handling the cup is a bit of red herring. Tyrion is the obvious suspect, though he really did have nothing to do with it. Sansa's disappearance from the capital thanks to Sir Dontos's warning, doesn't help his case much. Sansa is eventually taken to the Eyrie by Littlefinger, who by that point has married Lysa. Most of the rest of this season, the King's Landing bits will focus on Tyrion's trial. It's actually a tad more convoluted in the book than that, but that's basic plot.
Ok. Not having read the books (yet. Seriously have them waiting, but have a list of other stuff to read in the way), this kinda doesn't make much sense. Unless she's really just that upset about the whole mixing and matching of marriages by Tywin and is willing to more or less toss any connection to the Throne in the trash out of spite, that is. From a political perspective, wouldn't it have made a hell of a lot more sense to wait until her daughter had a child (preferably a son) by Joffrey, then kill him? Then it would be her daughter acting as Queen Regent, not Cersei, and her family most able to influence the future king.
Seems like by killing Joffrey, she's just handed the Lannisters more control (and a more manageable king). She basically just made Tywin that much more powerful. Maybe I'm missing something that was explained more clearly/fully in the books, but I'm just not seeing any sense to her action here at all. Her character doesn't seem to be one given to rash actions. Now, at least based on what's been in the show, it's leaning more towards Little Finger, which actually makes a hell of a lot more sense. He's always been someone more interested in some degree of stability (or chaos he can control), and may be more inclined towards a power structure he's more familiar with (the Lannisters) compared to the Tyrells. Plus, I suspect he'd kill pretty much anyone to steal away Sansa. So there's that.
Edited, Apr 21st 2014 3:08pm by gbaji
If I remember correctly they marry Tommen to Margaery so no influence lost for the Tyrells, but instead of the greatest ******** imaginable the new husband is a pretty decent guy. Littlefinger almost certainly knew about the plot somehow and used it to his advantage.
TherealLogros wrote:
If I remember correctly they marry Tommen to Margaery so no influence lost for the Tyrells, but instead of the greatest ******** imaginable the new husband is a pretty decent guy. Littlefinger almost certainly knew about the plot somehow and used it to his advantage.
I suppose that makes sense in a "make a plot twist for the book" kind of way, but Joffrey being a major **** was kinda part of what makes the plot work (because there's a ton of people who want him dead anyway, right?). If you're going to kill him off anyway, why not wait? I suppose they get the same thing in the long run with Tommen, but then they have to wait until he's of age first, all the while with only a promise of influence, while Cersei/Tywin are really running things. Then still have to deal with their influence while the child is growing up (cause they're presumably *not* going to bump off Tommen, so the Lannisters will have most of the influence on the future king to be). Wait until Margaery has a boy, then kill Joffrey, and they essentially gain control of the crown for the next 10-15 years.
I'm also not seeing why the need for the whole poison gem thing. Throwing off suspicion, I guess, but usually the more complex you make your plot, the more likely it is to come back and bite you in the rear. Since it appears that the key action was palming the poison into the wine right before Joffrey drank it anyway, why bother with all the other complex bits? Just sneak some in and be done with it. She's already taking the biggest risk right there. The whole "have Littlefinger make a poison gem, then have Ser Dontos give it to Sansa, then have her wear it, then pull the poison gem off of it, then palm it into the wine" seems unnecessarily complex. Not to mention, you've now involved like 4 or 5 more people in the plot and know who's really behind it all (not to mention, we can assume that Littlefinger isn't himself a master at making poison in the shape of a gemstone).
Maybe it's my innate KISS mentality when it comes to stuff like this. Makes for a great plot twist, but not so much a great actual plot to kill someone.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
gbaji wrote:
TherealLogros wrote:
If I remember correctly they marry Tommen to Margaery so no influence lost for the Tyrells, but instead of the greatest ******** imaginable the new husband is a pretty decent guy. Littlefinger almost certainly knew about the plot somehow and used it to his advantage.
I suppose that makes sense in a "make a plot twist for the book" kind of way, but Joffrey being a major **** was kinda part of what makes the plot work (because there's a ton of people who want him dead anyway, right?). If you're going to kill him off anyway, why not wait? I suppose they get the same thing in the long run with Tommen, but then they have to wait until he's of age first, all the while with only a promise of influence, while Cersei/Tywin are really running things. Then still have to deal with their influence while the child is growing up (cause they're presumably *not* going to bump off Tommen, so the Lannisters will have most of the influence on the future king to be). Wait until Margaery has a boy, then kill Joffrey, and they essentially gain control of the crown for the next 10-15 years.
I'm also not seeing why the need for the whole poison gem thing. Throwing off suspicion, I guess, but usually the more complex you make your plot, the more likely it is to come back and bite you in the rear. Since it appears that the key action was palming the poison into the wine right before Joffrey drank it anyway, why bother with all the other complex bits? Just sneak some in and be done with it. She's already taking the biggest risk right there. The whole "have Littlefinger make a poison gem, then have Ser Dontos give it to Sansa, then have her wear it, then pull the poison gem off of it, then palm it into the wine" seems unnecessarily complex. Not to mention, you've now involved like 4 or 5 more people in the plot and know who's really behind it all (not to mention, we can assume that Littlefinger isn't himself a master at making poison in the shape of a gemstone).
Maybe it's my innate KISS mentality when it comes to stuff like this. Makes for a great plot twist, but not so much a great actual plot to kill someone.
Yeah, that thing about Cersei and Tywin being a bad influence, it's not really going to be a problem for much longer...
In the book, Margaery really didn't have the same level of control over Joffrey as she did in the show. Killing him was her grandmothers best move to protect her, while still being able to make Margaery queen. The plot was certainly too involved for something as simple as poisoning Joffrey though. The bit with the jewels was fairly unnecessary, but having Dontas befriend Sansa, something that is far more involved in the book, was the best way for Little Finger to keep himself removed from the assassination plot.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2014 6:56pm by Turin
Turin wrote:
gbaji wrote:
TherealLogros wrote:
If I remember correctly they marry Tommen to Margaery so no influence lost for the Tyrells, but instead of the greatest ******** imaginable the new husband is a pretty decent guy. Littlefinger almost certainly knew about the plot somehow and used it to his advantage.
I suppose that makes sense in a "make a plot twist for the book" kind of way, but Joffrey being a major **** was kinda part of what makes the plot work (because there's a ton of people who want him dead anyway, right?). If you're going to kill him off anyway, why not wait? I suppose they get the same thing in the long run with Tommen, but then they have to wait until he's of age first, all the while with only a promise of influence, while Cersei/Tywin are really running things. Then still have to deal with their influence while the child is growing up (cause they're presumably *not* going to bump off Tommen, so the Lannisters will have most of the influence on the future king to be). Wait until Margaery has a boy, then kill Joffrey, and they essentially gain control of the crown for the next 10-15 years.
I'm also not seeing why the need for the whole poison gem thing. Throwing off suspicion, I guess, but usually the more complex you make your plot, the more likely it is to come back and bite you in the rear. Since it appears that the key action was palming the poison into the wine right before Joffrey drank it anyway, why bother with all the other complex bits? Just sneak some in and be done with it. She's already taking the biggest risk right there. The whole "have Littlefinger make a poison gem, then have Ser Dontos give it to Sansa, then have her wear it, then pull the poison gem off of it, then palm it into the wine" seems unnecessarily complex. Not to mention, you've now involved like 4 or 5 more people in the plot and know who's really behind it all (not to mention, we can assume that Littlefinger isn't himself a master at making poison in the shape of a gemstone).
Maybe it's my innate KISS mentality when it comes to stuff like this. Makes for a great plot twist, but not so much a great actual plot to kill someone.
Yeah, that thing about Cersei and Tywin being a bad influence, it's not really going to be a problem for much longer...
In the book, Margaery really didn't have the same level of control over Joffrey as she did in the show. Killing him was her grandmothers best move to protect her, while still being able to make Margaery queen. The plot was certainly too involved for something as simple as poisoning Joffrey though. The bit with the jewels was fairly unnecessary, but having Dontas befriend Sansa, something that is far more involved in the book, was the best way for Little Finger to stay removed from the plot.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2014 6:35pm by Turin
It's true about Olenna's motives in the book, butGbaji is also right in the sense that littlefinger was involved from the start. Dantos was his puppet, and he knew exactly when to ask sansa to leave. Which means little finger knew it was about to happen. It was LF that gave dontos the poisoned necklace and told him to tell the dead mum story. It's got his dirty little, erm, fingers all over it. He's the one that stands to gain most from all this. And obviously the chaos ladder theory. That left Olenna with only one task, to take it from the necklace to the glass. Slightly convoluted though, i agree.
Edited, Apr 22nd 2014 10:51pm by RedPhoenixxx
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
It's true about Olenna's motives in the book, butGbaji is also right in the sense that littlefinger was involved from the start. Dantos was his puppet, and he knew exactly when to ask sansa to leave. Which means little finger knew it was about to happen. It was LF that gave dontos the poisoned necklace and told him to tell the dead mum story. It's got his dirty little, erm, fingers all over it. He's the one that stands to gain most from all this. And obviously the chaos ladder theory. That left Olenna with only one task, to take it from the necklace to the glass. Slightly convoluted though, i agree.
That and it would require that Olenna trust Littlefinger with the plot. Something that, given his history, and the precarious nature of her position (which we have to assume is the motivation for doing this at all) would seem to be an incredibly dangerous and foolish thing for her to do. It serves the purpose in the books of moving certain plotlines forward, but really does make close to zero sense from a true-political point of view. I could see reasons for either one of them doing this, but not together. Neither has any reason to trust the other in a plot so dangerous.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
gbaji wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
It's true about Olenna's motives in the book, butGbaji is also right in the sense that littlefinger was involved from the start. Dantos was his puppet, and he knew exactly when to ask sansa to leave. Which means little finger knew it was about to happen. It was LF that gave dontos the poisoned necklace and told him to tell the dead mum story. It's got his dirty little, erm, fingers all over it. He's the one that stands to gain most from all this. And obviously the chaos ladder theory. That left Olenna with only one task, to take it from the necklace to the glass. Slightly convoluted though, i agree.
That and it would require that Olenna trust Littlefinger with the plot. Something that, given his history, and the precarious nature of her position (which we have to assume is the motivation for doing this at all) would seem to be an incredibly dangerous and foolish thing for her to do. It serves the purpose in the books of moving certain plotlines forward, but really does make close to zero sense from a true-political point of view. I could see reasons for either one of them doing this, but not together. Neither has any reason to trust the other in a plot so dangerous.
I suppose they both shared a temporary common interest. But I agree it is an extremely risky strategy from both of their point of view, and unnecessarily complicated.
It is slightly more credible in the books, but even they don't have the most robust narrative either. I really enjoyed reading them, and will buy the 5th one the day it comes out (so 2026, roughly) but they're light entertainment. Fast food for the mind. They're neither deep nor well-written, but good fun I suppose.
Don't watch GoT, but since I have a bunch of friends who are pissed off about the whole Jaime raping Cersei scene, I'm posting here.
To be clearer, many of them are pissed off about them making it into a rape scene, since it wasn't in the book, but all of them are pissed off about the fact that the director doesn't think it was one.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2014 1:22pm by idiggory
To be clearer, many of them are pissed off about them making it into a rape scene, since it wasn't in the book, but all of them are pissed off about the fact that the director doesn't think it was one.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2014 1:22pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Shaowstrike (Retired - FFXI)
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Cooking/Fishing 100
"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
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Cooking/Fishing 100
"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll
Yes but not any of the good ones.
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