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So I wanted to be a tankFollow

#27 Oct 11 2013 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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1,556 posts
Xoie wrote:
I think I had the wrong idea about Stoneskin. It seems the links only attacked the caster if it was cast after the pull had started, in which case the whole crew other than the original pull would charge. This must have been what I was thinking of. But if you do cast outside of combat, there doesn't seem to be any hate whatsoever, not even a mention on the enemy list.

For the sin of being wrong on Zam, I will accept my punishment of being down-rated on every post I've made in this thread, as is the customary flogging. Smiley: blush


It's honestly better to think you're right, do the research, and post findings than to stubbornly say you're right and leave it at that. And it takes a mature person to admit they're wrong (hint: not me). You should post your findings on the WHM/CNJ/SCH forums.

They're very barren...but better than the monk forums. :X
#28 Oct 11 2013 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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4,175 posts
My previous comment wasn't meant as a 'You're bad, find another job' comment. There are a few small adjustments you can make that you might be overlooking and I simply wanted to point that out. I just go into DF with the mindset that it's going to be a bit chaotic regardless. Maybe I'm crazy, but I actually found members spamming AoE or trying to tank in my stead to be a much needed challenge element added to early instances. Not trying to sound like a badass either, but the experience I have had in other MMOs leads me to think of uses for spells and abilities that other people might overlook or might not use efficiently.

A few things that not a lot of people take advantage of is closing combos on secondary targets or even moving on to secondary targets before the first one dies. If you have a combo that has the effect of additional enmity for example, you can 'open' the combo on your primary target(dealing damage and maintaining aggro after the initial pull) and then 'close' it on another target to shore up aggro to offset group members using AoE or incoming heals. Unless it was changed recently, the closer will still have the added effect as long as your opener didn't miss. Once you have sufficient aggro on the primary kill target, move on to the secondary. Your damage isn't really all that important and the only thing you may need to switch back for is an interrupt.

You should also be using the target of target button frequently, especially if you're losing hate. Simply select the member of your group who is taking damage, press the target of target key(T by default I think, but I have it bound elsewhere) to quickly locate the stray mob and use whatever necessary spells or abilities to recover hate. That's probably the fastest way to identify the target of a party member who isn't attacking you.

Remember that it can be used on mobs as well. Quick example:

x> O> <v <v (where you are the x, the mob is O and your group memebers are v, > and < are facing direction)

It might be hard to identify which group member pulled hate if the mob turns around to attack one of them. No sweat. Hit the target of target button and pop cover and/or fire off a preemptive heal. Different classes will have different tools to fit the occasion, just pick whatever works best for your class. Your healer is none the wiser and you have aggro back before your group member can even type 'QQ' Smiley: sly

It will depend on the class you play, but generally if your support classes are leveled up then you will have all the tools you need. It's just a matter of understanding how they all work and selecting the right spell or ability.
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#29 Oct 11 2013 at 5:02 AM Rating: Default
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So any idea why in the baby dungeons DD roles are now completely ignoring tank marks and fighting whatever the hell they want? Is this a case of not enough tanks marking so people have no clue what the hell those big numbers mean or are people just dumb now?
#30 Oct 11 2013 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
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8,779 posts
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
snip


Sounds like you just had some douchebags Hitome.

Also, for what it's worth, PLD has more issues with many of the pulls in AK than WAR does, on account of the lack of scaling on Flash. Flash is great for corraling mobs and getting initial aggro, but once the damage starts flying Overpower and Steel Cyclone are just better at keeping up.

PLD could use some extra aggro on Circle of Scorn, given that it's a 30s CD ability I don't see that as an issue. I've also found that on 2-3 mobs you can Fast Blade one, Savage Blade the second, and then Rage of Halone the main target. Swap the FB and SB target's each time, with RoH on the main target. This will usually keep aggro, even if they're splitting DPS. Unless all three members are attacking a different target, at which point you sheathe your weapon, start dancing, and let them deal with it, because clearly that group sucks *** and deserves to die.
#31 Oct 11 2013 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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180 posts
Xoie wrote:
I think I had the wrong idea about Stoneskin. It seems the links only attacked the caster if it was cast after the pull had started, in which case the whole crew other than the original pull would charge. This must have been what I was thinking of. But if you do cast outside of combat, there doesn't seem to be any hate whatsoever, not even a mention on the enemy list.


OK, this is what I was trying to suggest before about the tank not even being on any of the mobs' hate lists, so no matter which spell you cast on him, you shouldn't have any hate generated on the healer pre-pull. I'm glad that after some further discussion we were able to clarify that this is the case. What you had been suggesting just didn't seem to make sense to me, but I did not have the opportunity to test it myself.

Thanks Hitome and Xoie for the good discussion and testing the results.
#32 Oct 11 2013 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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180 posts
Whoa! - triple post even....

Edited, Oct 11th 2013 7:56am by Canadensis
#33 Oct 11 2013 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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180 posts
Hmm... double post - sorry.

Edited, Oct 11th 2013 7:55am by Canadensis
#34 Oct 11 2013 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
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4,175 posts
Refews wrote:
So any idea why in the baby dungeons DD roles are now completely ignoring tank marks and fighting whatever the hell they want? Is this a case of not enough tanks marking so people have no clue what the hell those big numbers mean or are people just dumb now?


Because it doesn't really matter? Mobs in those dungeons don't really hit you for any less than they'd hit a tank for. I wouldn't say they're dumb, just impatient. Marking mobs doesn't really take all that long, but dungeons are a loss when it comes to exp when compared to fates so people just want to rush through to finish quests or storylines.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#35 Oct 15 2013 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
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826 posts
kichwas wrote:
Carbuncle tanking doesn't work for long... So that Arcanist is asking for it. A few more dungeons in, he will have learned a whole list of bad tricks he then has to unlearn... while getting less chances because his queue is longer as a DPS than it is for a tank.

Somewhere in the later 20s I think, the dungeons stop coddling people. I've been told it was Huakke Manor, but I found that easy. Then again our group was coordinated. I think what they do first is start hitting harder and harder, ramping it up... and then by Sunken Temple they're also adding in special mechanics and split up duties for people...

Sastasha though - yeah... tank is kind of optional there. I'm not fond of that, but I guess its needed these days as a 'weeding off of WoW' moment. I remember back when even the level 15 dungeon in WoW required tactics and solid tanking... But that hasn't been the case since about 2007/8...


I felt it wasn't until Brayflox that the party really, truly needs to start working together instead of as four separate people lumped together. Even Haukke you can wing it with your tank lying in a bloody puddle on the floor, as our healer was sh*te for the run I did during story missions. IMO, Brayflox is way too far into the meat of the game for folks to finally be learning how to run as a group.

Pre-launch, I had the impression, based on how they describe them in-game, that guildhests were supposed to teach coordination and tactics, but only three of them really do that, none of which are 1-25.

Edited, Oct 15th 2013 3:38am by Dallie
#36 Oct 15 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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109 posts
A good healer and tank combo can still carry a Brayflox party.

Sunken Temple is the first dungeon (which is also optional and harder than the ones that follow) where a tank/healer can't carry bad DPS to victory because the Final Sting mechanic forces DPS to pay attention. Having to remove doom and kill bees at the same time is the first time DPS really have to use their brain. Ignore kill order and bees and the tank can easily get 1-shot if it doesn't stun. It seems that without fail a pug member will die to doom because it gets tunnel vision. I did one DF pug where I explained the Doom mechanic and bees before the pull and sure enough all three other party members died on the first doom.

Temple is the first dungeon after 34 (where most classes get nice cross class abilities) so the increase in difficulty makes sense to me. It is a DF killer if DPS sucks and I like it for that reason. It's nice to have mechanics that DPS can't sleep through.

Edited, Oct 15th 2013 12:50pm by KingoGoodbomber
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