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Smallest MMO world to date?Follow

#77 Sep 16 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
LucasNox wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of arguing about it is.

There's really no disputing that the world is small. You don't have to defend that fact and say it isn't. You can still like a game with a small world. It's going to get bigger anyway.


I guess it doesn't feel that small to me. It's not a pointless series of tubes like XIII-1 was. And it's not a wide open expanse of empty zones like XI was. It's the happy medium, where there is land you can see on your map that is inaccessible terrain because... not all land is stuff the average person can walk up or climb down. That's a genuine reflection of reality. There's a few places I'd really like to climb up so I can survey the whole terrain, but I recognize that unless they introduce a "rappelling" class (maybe ninja?) it'd be unfeasible to just jump up a friggin mountain.

Fun fact about XI - the draw distance is foreshortened on the PC version by the client because zones seem smaller when you see the distant walls right away. I like to flip on DrawDistance to bring the horizon up because my PC can handle it (PS2 clients could not load the horizons for the whole zone at once) but it does make the world seem smaller. XIV and ARR both have the horizons fully loaded upon zoning, which lends itself to that same illusion. When the city lights are visible on the horizon in most of the starting zones, then they really do feel smaller.

I'd venture to say that a run from North Gridania all the way down to the southernmost points of Thanalan, on foot, would take a considerable amount of time. Running along the coastline of La Noscea too would take forever and ever.

I do wish airships and ferries had a travel time associated with them. That's about the only design decision I disagree with. It actually does make the world feel smaller.

And the world will get bigger. The base game is always relatively small compared to the final results. Heckl, FFXI ran into issues with PS2 memory because it could only have 255 zones maximum and they ran out of numbers. They had to reprogram the entire base game to allow BCNMs to act more like proper instances so they wouldn't need 4 copies of each battlefield.

PS3 won't have that problem, since SE learned their lesson in XI and knew not to program a maximum number of allowed zones. (Maybe there's still a max, but something more like 1024. PS3 limitations!)

#78 Sep 16 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"

This is where context becomes a fun thing. Ever see anyone complain about how long it took to get around? I'll give you a hint: Zone size matters. Even NPC positioning matters. Remember when you had to run to an NPC all the way on the other end of the city zone just to Outpost warp? I do. It added nothing but time sink. Teleport and Return also removed the need for WHM taxis or BLM warps/consumables. Things slowly improved in XI with things like NPC warps to Aht Urghan, Abyssea and Voidwatch warps, and now Adoulin teleporter things. But let's not pretend walking through Tahrongi from East Saru to Meriphitaud was riveting gameplay full of awesome eye candy to boot. No, I just remember a lot of needlessly uneven terrain you couldn't jump/climb up and needing damn near 5 minutes even on a chocobo.

And in thinking about it, running from South Shroud to Southern Thanalan would probably take just as long, maybe even longer.

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 10:15am by Seriha
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#79 Sep 16 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
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and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"

This is where context becomes a fun thing. Ever see anyone complain about how long it took to get around? I'll give you a hint: Zone size matters. Even NPC positioning matters. Remember when you had to run to an NPC all the way on the other end of the city zone just to Outpost warp? I do. It added nothing but time sink. Teleport and Return also removed the need for WHM taxis or BLM warps/consumables. Things slowly improved in XI with things like NPC warps to Aht Urghan, Abyssea and Voidwatch warps, and now Adoulin teleporter things. But let's not pretend walking through Tahrongi from East Saru to Meriphitaud was riveting gameplay full of awesome eye candy to boot. No, I just remember a lot of needlessly uneven terrain you couldn't jump/climb up and needing damn near 5 minutes even on a chocobo.

And in thinking about it, running from South Shroud to Southern Thanalan would probably take just as long, maybe even longer.

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 10:15am by Seriha



ppl complained about the maps being too big in 1.0 but not in XI so clearly SEs big maps in XI were doing something the ones in 1.0 were not
#80 Sep 16 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
My complaint about maps in XI, specifically the dungeons, is how each one is often broken up into multiple stupid rooms in the maze dungeons. For things with several levels like DF tower and Garliage, it makes sense, but some of the later instanced dungeons were very very stupid in their maps. (Looking at you, Arrapago Reef assaults and Runholtz silver mines.)
#81REDACTED, Posted: Sep 16 2013 at 9:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It was just pointing out that this is one of the smallest mmo releases at launch, whether you think that is good or bad is upto you. Doesn't change the fact that it's still tiny compared to almost any mmo, especially newer ones that had a ton of effort put into their expansive zones.
#82 Sep 16 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
Zone size in 1.0 was fine, it was the repetition that wasn't.

FFXI had copy/pasta in their zones too. Tahrongi and M. Mountains had the same zone assets. Same with Konschtat and La Theine. However, they still had some landmarks that set them apart. (Giant Bone bridge, for example.)
#83 Sep 16 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?
#84REDACTED, Posted: Sep 16 2013 at 9:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.
#85 Sep 16 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?


We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.


You're not even trying anymore, these arguments are terrible.
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#86 Sep 16 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?



ok i know the second one is WoTG but what expansion are you referring too with the first one?



and speaking of expansions. ppl claim FFXIV WILL get bigger (which is will as ALL good mmos do) however itll take a YEAR before hat finally happens.. i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches.. new areas usually came in the form of expansions which in FFXIs case wasd once every 12 months.. that being said if XIV is to be the same we can expect to run around on the same small map until at least the end of next summer
#87 Sep 16 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
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so if one gamed was HUGE at release why cant every other game be? make sense?


Because all games are basically the same. Smiley: oyvey

let most ppl tell it everything made by japan is the same lol. But anyway considering SE made an mmo before (FFXI) the correct way to make a new hit would be take everything everyone liked about the last and make it better and leave out the stuff ppl complained about/didnt like.... and im sure NO ONE in FFXI every complained "the maps are too big"

The zones I have visited so far in FFXIV have been breathtakingly amazing. I see a degree of detail that I didn't see in any of the starting/RoZ zones in FFXI. If smaller zones are the price for the jaw dropping landscapes I'm seeing now, I think it's a fair price.

Also, in general, if SE had strictly limited itself to making an improved FFXI to become FFXIV, they limit their opportunity to try new things. If you refuse to change something because most players felt it was an aspect of the game that was good enough, you'll never be able to potentially try a design that's better.
#88 Sep 16 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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not true because they tried new things within FFXI just fine.. for example the vanilla version/RoZ then CoP... I would call going from that to CoP was definitely "trying new things" and it worked just fine.. and now look at the game with Abyssea.. the game is completely different now than what it was back in 08 or 09... yet another example of trying new things and apparently IT worked too... so they didnt seem restricted at all.

Also most of the time when SE tries something new it gets panned all over the pkce (final fantasy xiii) that alone would be enough incentive for me to say "stick with what works/leave good enough alone. because everytime i try something new ppl ***** an complain" lol
#89 Sep 16 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
I'd think the argument to "remake XI" would have held more water if XI wasn't still receiving updates on its own. There's still some story they want to tell in XI, and they see no reason to stop telling it in its original format.

Remember, all Final Fantasy games start with a story and then build the game out from there. XIV is an MMO because, after they wrote the base storylines with the Twelve, the Archeons and the Garleans and such, they realized the story itself would best be told in the format of an MMO (as opposed to with a specific named individual and a static party of unique characters.) The problem was that their vision did not match their technology, and the result was the mess of a game that was 1.0. By the time Yoshi P began to salvage the game and fix the most horrendous issues, the storyline that was originally planned out was being released in missions and we got a glimpse of the underlying vision SE had for the game.

That doesn't mean that the games don't change as they develop them. That's why XIII Versus is now XV, for that matter. The story they wanted to tell in Versus turned out to be enough of a chunk that it could stand in its own world, and then someone said "Why does it have to be the same world as XIII at all? Why not Tokyo?" Boom, the first FF game to take place in our world instead of a fantasy world. (Just wish the main character wasn't a Sasuke clone.)

Edited, Sep 16th 2013 12:20pm by Catwho
#90 Sep 16 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
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they dont have to "remake" FFXI Id be perfectly ok if they made a digital version playable on PS3 (or 4) without the need for backwards compatibility... that alone would be enough to make me happy
#91 Sep 16 2013 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
Agreed on the PS3 or PS4!
#92 Sep 16 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches..


Rift: Ember Isle
WoW: Isle of Quel'Danas, Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants

Next.
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#93 Sep 16 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches..


Rift: Ember Isle
WoW: Isle of Quel'Danas, Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants

Next.

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#94 Sep 16 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Agreed on the PS3 or PS4!



oh and i should also add "allowing american express as a payment option to ffxi as well"
#95 Sep 16 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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i mean i cant name too many if ANY game that added new areas with just update patches..


Rift: Ember Isle
WoW: Isle of Quel'Danas, Timeless Isle, Isle of Giants

Next.



ok then good now that i now know of MMOs that added new areas through patches and not full blown expansions indeed DO exist/has been done. i now no longer have anything to say on that subject (see unlike most i know how to admit when Ive lost)
#96 Sep 16 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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It might not be a big open world, but its not really an issue when it's this fun. I only wish it was a bit more dangerous. Groups should be rewarded for venturing into areas too difficult to solo and carving a path. They could even be optional areas with different quests and rewards for those seeking a challenge. My biggest complaint overall is that the game feels too easy.
#97 Sep 16 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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moonfroh wrote:
It might not be a big open world, but its not really an issue when it's this fun. I only wish it was a bit more dangerous. Groups should be rewarded for venturing into areas too difficult to solo and carving a path. They could even be optional areas with different quests and rewards for those seeking a challenge. My biggest complaint overall is that the game feels too easy.


I think it'd be kind of cool to have an area that randomly populates itself. Kind of an MMO roguelike zone with dangerous mobs and random chests.

The original Nyzul Isle kind of did this, but I'd like to see it explored a bit further. Might be neat.
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#98 Sep 16 2013 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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while im not entirely sure if FXIV beats XI in quantity.. I can definitely say it beats it in Quality.. I would most definitely settle for less areas if the areas were leaps and bounds better visually like XIV is over XI. The detail they put into the zones alone is a good reason for there to be fewer zones than in XI. XI graphics take up less space memory wise as well right? If so, that would also explain why there are more zones. Just my 2 cents
#99 Sep 17 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?


We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.


I think you're mad because you don't see the writing on the wall, or just refuse to acknowledge it, in a bias to try to turn XIV players against their own game.

The world size is irrelevant. I don't care if Rift had a 'bigger' world at launch. I don't care if ANY game had a physically larger world at launch. Neither do most people out in the world except, for instance, people trying to make an argument against a game and start doing so by grabbing at any straws they can find and expounding them.

How it's taking you 1,907 posts as a three-starred Scholar to figure this out is beyond me. You are walking into a Ford club and telling everyone that Ford sucks and to buy a Chevy instead. Then you're getting mad when the club turns on you. How did you expect people would react?

Posting what you posted in a WoW forum as an argument against XIV would be one thing. Nobody there has a love for XIV. Posting against XIV in a XIV community? It simply blows my mind when people expect not to be lit up on the boards after doing so.


That'd be like me coming to your house and telling you your wife is f'ing ugly. You'd be pissed. You're a liar if you say you wouldn't be.
#100 Sep 17 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
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darexius2010, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
preludes wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Half-assed expansions, you say?

Like a certain FFXI expansion that launched with 3 story quests that took 4 1/2 years to get any meaningful content aside from one battle event?
Like another certain FFXI expansion that players were asking in interviews when the storyline was going to end 1 1/2 years after it launched?


We put up with that on XI because there was little competition and we were long since addicted to the game by that point, since most XIV players use XI as an excuse for everything (XI never went f2p hence XIV will never go free to play!) maybe they will half *** XIV expansions too and do that horrible bare bones exp pack and dribble out content over the years yeah. As I said, many players seem ok with small worlds so small expansions should be ok here it seems.


I think you're mad because you don't see the writing on the wall, or just refuse to acknowledge it, in a bias to try to turn XIV players against their own game.

The world size is irrelevant. I don't care if Rift had a 'bigger' world at launch. I don't care if ANY game had a physically larger world at launch. Neither do most people out in the world except, for instance, people trying to make an argument against a game and start doing so by grabbing at any straws they can find and expounding them.

How it's taking you 1,907 posts as a three-starred Scholar to figure this out is beyond me. You are walking into a Ford club and telling everyone that Ford sucks and to buy a Chevy instead. Then you're getting mad when the club turns on you. How did you expect people would react?

Posting what you posted in a WoW forum as an argument against XIV would be one thing. Nobody there has a love for XIV. Posting against XIV in a XIV community? It simply blows my mind when people expect not to be lit up on the boards after doing so.


That'd be like me coming to your house and telling you your wife is f'ing ugly. You'd be pissed. You're a liar if you say you wouldn't be.



no that chevy exmple or ugly wife example you gave is onyhow blind fanboys react. noing is perfect if you pointed out an inperfection in something i liked and it were true id admit it. but that doesnt mean ill jump ontowhatever lacks that imperfection. for example if you told me my wife was ugly and she acually was i wouldnt get mad at all infact id tell you "youre right she isnt the best looking woman ive ever seen or dated. i could name hundreds that look better. but i didnt marry her for her looks. if i wantd something that was just good to look at i can find that in a magazine or tv"
#101 Sep 17 2013 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
I feel sorry for your wife.
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