I've only run the first 4 dungeons as a healer once since release. Out of those i've had 1 good tank. Luckily my wife is an Arcanist and i had her get topaz carbie out or there was no way we would of made it. All 3 of the bad ones have been GLD and think they are just another dps class. If they used flash i was lucky.
Last night we did Halitali, carbie tanked the whole thing. The bad bad tank didn't even bother to try to pull the mobs off, I don't think he had to skills to do it, his skills not the game given ones. Now my wife isn't that great at MMO's, she is a horrible keyboard turner which I got her working on but when she tanks and does DPS and out performs 3/4 tanks we've come across it scares me on what the future will hold, not alone stresses her out and I dont want to shy her away from the game.
I also like when you get passed the cutscene at the start and at least one dps takes off and pulls before buffs are on and the tank and healer are ready.
I wonder how many tank classed individuals would sign up for DPS if it were a choice.
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Azoria wrote:
I think he is saying there is a difference between an "oopsie" and general jackassery. An occasional sleep broken? No sweat! Accidentally targeted the wrong enemy? We got this! Ran ahead of the tank once? No problemo! However, the people he is referring to are the ones that feel the need to "lead" us through a dungeon by consistently running ahead of the group and pulling... because they are important and have sh*t to do! The people that constantly target what-the-hell-ever they want and split the DPS, despite clear marks and consistent pleas to engage the same target. He is talking about the clowns that, no matter how often you implore them, they stand in the AOEs over and over again.
These people get the boot, and they deserve it. He isn't talking about a generally competent player that makes a one-off mistake. He is talkin' bout asshats.
These people get the boot, and they deserve it. He isn't talking about a generally competent player that makes a one-off mistake. He is talkin' bout asshats.
^ I have had this very thing while healing as my SCH. A BLM ran ahead of our parties tank ONCE and the tank flipped out like you'd just punched his new-born baby in the face. The tank the went on a caps lock temper tantrum then quit the dungeon.
If i know the dungeon layout and routine then i will not follow the tank blindly if i know they are doing something out of order or wrong. I love when a tank dies the proceeds to tell me: "you suppose to follow me, i'm the tank" This comment is usually followed by me not curing them.
The one thing i wish they would add is a way to befriend people you find on the DF. I have ran across some amazing party set ups and all the members would have been more then happy to do multiple runs together.
Edited, Sep 9th 2013 2:36pm by RyanSquires
Edited, Sep 9th 2013 2:43pm by RyanSquires
RyanSquires wrote:
The one thing i wish they would add is a way to befriend people you find on the DF. I have ran across some amazing party set ups and all the members would have been more then happy to do multiple runs together.
^^ Having had the full experience now,(shudder) This.
I do invite really excellent players to say hi to us on the Forums here after a particularly good group. Even if they don't World Transfer to a Zam server, anyone of Skill and a good outlook is welcome in my book.
You never know, you may have some talented soloist/Shy person who keeps running into asshats on their own server, ready to make the change. After all.. they are in the Duty Finder...
Edited, Sep 9th 2013 3:32pm by OtosanOokami
Maybe they were doing their best and just messed up, so they got upset when you treated them like they were stupid.
I would have to see the actual conversation.
I would have to see the actual conversation.
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Typical angry over-reaction to a post that he/she didn't agree with
SistinasAria wrote:
Since my comment is getting such detailed scrutiny...learn to comprehend what is written, rather than mearly glossing over the words before injecting yoir biased opinion of the type of player I am. My comment clearly states the following:
1. Directions given
2. Targets marked
3. Understanding before run starts
I make sure people know what to do and when so mistakes aren't made in the first place. Any competent leader can distinguish a mistake from someone ******** around and not following directions. In most cases, this happens about mid way through because they think it's "easy" giving them the right to take it upon themselves to disregard the plan. It's easy because everyone is doing what they should, but they don't take into consideration that getting ahead of the tank or attacking whatever they feel like is putting an unnecessary burden on both the tank and healer. At that time is when they get the boot, not because they made a mistake.
1. Directions given
2. Targets marked
3. Understanding before run starts
I make sure people know what to do and when so mistakes aren't made in the first place. Any competent leader can distinguish a mistake from someone ******** around and not following directions. In most cases, this happens about mid way through because they think it's "easy" giving them the right to take it upon themselves to disregard the plan. It's easy because everyone is doing what they should, but they don't take into consideration that getting ahead of the tank or attacking whatever they feel like is putting an unnecessary burden on both the tank and healer. At that time is when they get the boot, not because they made a mistake.
Azoria wrote:
I think he is saying there is a difference between an "oopsie" and general jackassery. An occasional sleep broken? No sweat! Accidentally targeted the wrong enemy? We got this! Ran ahead of the tank once? No problemo! However, the people he is referring to are the ones that feel the need to "lead" us through a dungeon by consistently running ahead of the group and pulling... because they are important and have sh*t to do! The people that constantly target what-the-hell-ever they want and split the DPS, despite clear marks and consistent pleas to engage the same target. He is talking about the clowns that, no matter how often you implore them, they stand in the AOEs over and over again.
These people get the boot, and they deserve it. He isn't talking about a generally competent player that makes a one-off mistake. He is talkin' bout asshats.
These people get the boot, and they deserve it. He isn't talking about a generally competent player that makes a one-off mistake. He is talkin' bout asshats.
Here- I clarified for you so you don't have to be so butt-hurt. Makes me wonder if you might be one of the asshats that gets booted the way you jumped all over this topic...
19 posts
I haven't made it to that dungeon yet (close) but I'm baffled a bit too by the ease of the dungeons versus the difficulty a lot of players have with them.
Being my first FF game my impression is that they developed the game with younger/first time MMOers in mind.
Things like the on-the-rails main story quests, most physical danger areas impossible to fall/walk off of, simplified combat mechanics, etc.
Only thing I can think of is that you're running into those younger/first time gamers that are embarrassed to admit it.
Being my first FF game my impression is that they developed the game with younger/first time MMOers in mind.
Things like the on-the-rails main story quests, most physical danger areas impossible to fall/walk off of, simplified combat mechanics, etc.
Only thing I can think of is that you're running into those younger/first time gamers that are embarrassed to admit it.
OtosanOokami wrote:
I have left Precisely ONE group now****... I'll gut out a LOT if people are at least TRYING to do their jobs.
The PUG tank ran straight into bosses Unbuffed, with 2 members not even to the line, held no side aggro while waking freshly slept mobs, Marked after engaging (and several casts in), and after repeated polite* requests to not pull mid-buff cast (as it glues all the mobs onto me, forcing immediate curebombing, More sleeps (which would be wasted as they'd be waked shortly after), Wasted MP, resulting in repeated WHM deaths because Shroud of Saints** is a 2 minute ability.
I almost forgot... He would pull, and fight where the Wyvern comes down from the ceiling, getting most of the party repeatedly bathed in fire mid combat. I don't mind a challenge, Cutter's Cry was pure WHM joy, Making the healer's job deliberately twice as hard is not good Mojo.
Pulling another entire group while being told the mages were being chewed on by an unsleepable mob (Stone Vigil Dragon Aevis, those nasty Damage spikers) was the final straw, and I bade a still fairly civil goodbye, stating that "without communication, there is no point in continuing onward"
Later that day, Same 3 FC people, New PUG Marauder tank from Midgardsormr... The tank was a Bon Vivant***... Not worried about plans, or communicating verbally, Even teasing us for worrying about plans... which gave us a bad warning... Until he marked things, Listened to the Person in charge of Sleep (not me for once) kept nearly perfect hate, and didn't eat every AOE on the chin. We get to the Cannon part. he fights the mob where it blocks the cannons with the tornados, we wipe... he listens, fights the mob where we can use the cannons without being interrupted, and we SAIL through to the end like a magic carpet ride.
I'm happy to die, over and over again in service of Education if people are actually TRYING, but if it's obvious that the problem person doesn't give a damn, I'm not in the habit of rewarding narcissism. I'll bring the razor up and cut off my nose to spite the face, even if it's a run that I cannot progress without.
I don't run for loot, I run for the pleasure of the Run. Monopoly money is Monopoly money. Fun is the real reward.
* Polite = "please don't do that" Thats as much of a request as I make, and I'll ask several times before getting annoyed... If you see me stoop to applied profanity to a person, I've already given them several chances. I'm nobody's servant.
** Shroud of Saints = Instant 50% Enmity cut, and Refresh. I don't mind using it if we're pushing hard and my MP is low... That's fun. It's not Crappy Tank Buffer every other pull.
*** http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bon_vivant
**** And upon leaving that instance, stayed in party all day, with the same FC people, until we had the run finished. I do NOT leave people high and dry when they did their jobs.
Edited, Sep 9th 2013 2:17pm by OtosanOokami
I hear ya. It's always hard to leave a good party, you wanna cling and never let go.
Edited, Sep 9th 2013 6:40pm by TwilightSkye
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Here- I clarified for you so you don't have to be so butt-hurt. Makes me wonder if you might be one of the asshats that gets booted the way you jumped all over this topic..
There's a common theme here.
Tank states:
SomeTank wrote:
I know I've had my fair share of /fail runs.
Well, I've only seen two failed runs in the 60+ PUG DFs I've done.
SomeTank wrote:
My solution, based on past experience, was to get my wife involved. This works out exceptionally well since it puts both of us in control.
Read: I am now protected from being kicked for making mistakes.
It's just hypocritical.
You may want to check your logic. "Jumping all over a topic" (which I haven't done) has no relation to "an asshat that gets booted".
I do my job pretty well. Focus target, sleep adds, bind or sleep adds attacking the healer that a tank might not be aware of, make plenty of use out of my defensive CDs, etc. I'm also quite polite in dungeons and will help anyone who is new.
I do not take what he said personally because I am not the type of person to pull mobs before a tank does or focus on a target that the tank isn't attacking..
Instead, I just pointed out the hypocrisy in his words. Understand now? Good.
I generally act incredibly silly in dungeons. I'll /dance with mobs and throw a lot of random Protects here and there. It's all in good fun, but people put up with me being childish and cracking jokes all the time because *gasp* I always know my role in a party.
If I am the tank, I almost always get complimented on how good I am. If I am healer, I almost never wipe.. In fact, only twice in this game so far, and both were attributed to Leroy Jenkins tanking.
The point of the game is to have fun. For me, seeing a party safely through to victory fanfare is FUN! Getting crazy loot and XP is fun! I don't understand why people queue up for a game just to crap over not only their own progress but the progress of others. It seems like such a basic thing.
If I am the tank, I almost always get complimented on how good I am. If I am healer, I almost never wipe.. In fact, only twice in this game so far, and both were attributed to Leroy Jenkins tanking.
The point of the game is to have fun. For me, seeing a party safely through to victory fanfare is FUN! Getting crazy loot and XP is fun! I don't understand why people queue up for a game just to crap over not only their own progress but the progress of others. It seems like such a basic thing.
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