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What A Change a Few Years Can MakeFollow

#77 Jul 24 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I find it ironic that no matter the side of the debate, one thing you can be guaranteed on is that at least someone will be there to supply your need for confirmation bias, no matter how contrarian you are or how hypocritical your words to your actions become. I feel as we need to nip this in the bud.

And I've argued many times with my brother that there is a very large difference between reasoning and rationalizing. As stated before, simply expressing one's like for the game gets undermined when the majority of one's post is done through negative criticism. Additionally, stating you wish to participate in the growth and improvement of a game similarly gets undermined when said negativity prevents a friendly or civil engagement with said games community. Particularly the community which is not only dedicated, but is enjoying mechanics you may be putting into question, and therefore jeopardizing their enjoyment directly.

However it is in human nature to resist change as we are creatures of comfort, and we must recognize this instinct in us when faced with dissenting opinion. Our reactions should not, in fact become one of immediate attack or deface, but instead to try to ascertain the true intent behind the statement, given that it is provided civily. In instances which the opinion is smothered in offensiveness, the demeanor, not the ideal, should be discouraged and frowed upon. And once addressed the ideal then must be properly weighed in upon, as it is feedback and should be respected as such, even if the response is a staunch disagreement.

So, as a point of advice, do not rationalize your demeanor or rationalize your viewpoint. Reason with those opposed and trying to meet an agreeable compromise. Insisting your right in spite of the consequence is what results in poor reception of your posts, and carrying that around like a badge of honor is a dangerous demeanor to have if you're actually wanting to participate in the community rather than be ostracized by it.

Let me be plain. In no way, is any individual here 'better' than another either by default or through arguments. That includes claims of being higher minded, more intelligent, more logical, etc. Trying to insinuate as such is a thinly veiled insult to everyone of the opposing opinion and the tolerance for that within the community has been wearing thin, if I'm reading the trends correctly.

In my individual opinion it is not wise to continue, nor encourage, such negative behaviors. Believe it or not, some people stop playing games based on forum communities that surround them. The official and Beta Forums are already notorious for the polarized arguments and generally unhealthy environments. In such circumstances it is fan communities such as ZAM that become the bastions of civility and community that prospective players rely upon to create a friendly environment to interact with one another in outside Guilds and the Game itself - and everyone here is responsible for maintaining that.
#78 Jul 24 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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In short, logical tempered arguments go a lot farther in creating discussion (especially here @ZAM) than saying, "OMG the grass looks horrible and the game will fail, lolz u ar all white knights!@1!"

Though it's always going to be the case that the more flammable the statement the more attention it will get.

---

I try not to pay mind to those statements for the most part, as I see it as a matter of civility. There are ways to argue and debate and although it may be pretentious, I try not to waste time with toxic comments even if there is a modicum of truth.
#79 Jul 24 2013 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
Gnu wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
It's just that his voice is a whiny brat voice!


Kinda like Hope in FFXIII? I think one of the reason I eventually gave up on that game was that Hope might start talking again.


Hope's VA was fine.
#80 Jul 24 2013 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:

Though it's always going to be the case that the more flammable the statement the more attention it will get.


Here, the Karma system truncates that a bit. Down voting something to sub-default discourages posters from replying to overtly inflammatory statements as it makes it easier for it to be overlooked or flat out ignored.

As is placing specific individuals on your ignore list. Though I went a step further and 'requested' (Read: I ******** not going to lie, but I did settle down and posted something civil in feedback.) that posts covered by ignore functions don't receive a preview like sub-defaulted posts do.

The coders received the feedback (after it was presented properly) and went ahead and changed the function so that it just reads "user ignored".

But yeah, you stated another reason why the Karma system exists as is.

Also, a small addition to your advice - Logical, tempered, and humble arguments, tend to gain traction. It's best that we acknowledge we are individuals speaking as individuals and not try to put ourselves on a pedestal.

Edited, Jul 24th 2013 9:18pm by Hyrist
#81 Jul 24 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
Gnu wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
It's just that his voice is a whiny brat voice!


Kinda like Hope in FFXIII? I think one of the reason I eventually gave up on that game was that Hope might start talking again.


Hope's VA was fine.


He's very mature and collected in FFXIII-2. I like the growth of character they made for him. Sure, some could find him annoying during his growth as a character. But I LIKED hope in FFXIII-2. It felt like he got it together and grew up into a fine young man.
#82 Jul 24 2013 at 9:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Hyrist wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
Gnu wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
It's just that his voice is a whiny brat voice!


Kinda like Hope in FFXIII? I think one of the reason I eventually gave up on that game was that Hope might start talking again.


Hope's VA was fine.


He's very mature and collected in FFXIII-2. I like the growth of character they made for him. Sure, some could find him annoying during his growth as a character. But I LIKED hope in FFXIII-2. It felt like he got it together and grew up into a fine young man.


That really happened huh? I guess I shouldn't judge without having played through the whole story. Still, when a game is boring me, I have a much harder time forcing myself to finish it then I once did. His blithering blather was a source of much boredom for me.

I'm hoping some of the FFXIV NPC's are genuinely interesting.
#84 Jul 24 2013 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:

I'm hoping some of the FFXIV NPC's are genuinely interesting.

Here's a couple to chew on.

Hildebrand:


I love this pairing - Yda and Papalymo


Oh, and don't forget the Black Wolf vs the rest of the good guys.


Edited, Jul 25th 2013 12:16am by Hyrist
#85 Jul 24 2013 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Gnu wrote:

I'm hoping some of the FFXIV NPC's are genuinely interesting.

Here's a couple to chew on.

Hildebrand:
[youtube=1W3u9vEZI9Q]

I love this pairing - Yda and Papalymo
[youtube=0xnhhJisWNs]

Oh, and don't forget the Black Wolf vs the rest of the good guys.


Edited, Jul 25th 2013 12:16am by Hyrist


Those videos just remind me of the biggest thing I'm gonna miss from 1.x, the music. I really just loved that soundtrack.
#86 Jul 24 2013 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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Pandacon wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Gnu wrote:

I'm hoping some of the FFXIV NPC's are genuinely interesting.

Here's a couple to chew on.

Hildebrand:


I love this pairing - Yda and Papalymo


Oh, and don't forget the Black Wolf vs the rest of the good guys.


Edited, Jul 25th 2013 12:16am by Hyrist


Those videos just remind me of the biggest thing I'm gonna miss from 1.x, the music. I really just loved that soundtrack.



Uematsu did a pretty good job with a lot of the music for 1.0, and I agree some of the tracks are pretty nostalgic, but overall I think 2.0's soundtrack is better.

Also there are some 1.0 tracks in 2.0 as well.
#87 Jul 25 2013 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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Music is the one thing I am staunchly critical of SE for right now. The field and leveling dungeons do not maintain consistent, thematic music throughout. Those preview clips? They're not preview clips, that's the entirety of the track played. I'm not happy about the 'in and out' fading on the fields too. The silence is boring to me.
#88 Jul 25 2013 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Music is the one thing I am staunchly critical of SE for right now. The field and leveling dungeons do not maintain consistent, thematic music throughout. Those preview clips? They're not preview clips, that's the entirety of the track played. I'm not happy about the 'in and out' fading on the fields too. The silence is boring to me.

Isn't there an option for looping of the music?
#89 Jul 25 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
ClydesShadow wrote:
http://dorkutopia.com/the-first-five-review-ffxiv-a-realm-reborn-beta-impressions/

Can any of us even fathom 1.0 turning into a game that is receiving a score of 85%? Granted this is just a preview, however this type of publicity is going to make this game huge.

It's funny how naysayers are few and far between these days. I remember just several months ago, about 50% of XIVs forum population was made up of trolls who just wanted to bash the game.


The readers of the blog gave it a 95%...

Kind of like looking at Rotten Tomatoes to see if I'll like a movie, I go with the audience numbers... critics are paid to be critical... so 85% is a bit low IMHO.



It's a bit high IMHO. During P3 I would give the game a 75% maybe. The invisible walls, lack of interesting boss mechanics, and snoozefest GCD are the only things holding this game back. These things aren't important to everyone, but they're very important to me. If they work on that, which I'm sure they will, this game would be an easy 9/10 for me.

In case you couldn't discern the tone of my post, I'm happy with the game overall and this is not a flame in anyway.
#90 Jul 25 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Arnulf wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Music is the one thing I am staunchly critical of SE for right now. The field and leveling dungeons do not maintain consistent, thematic music throughout. Those preview clips? They're not preview clips, that's the entirety of the track played. I'm not happy about the 'in and out' fading on the fields too. The silence is boring to me.

Isn't there an option for looping of the music?


It doesn't work iirc. I was really bummed that the music faded out all the time. This game has beautiful music and I'd like to hear it the whole time. I always wished they had added music in to areas like Konchtat and the Dunes in FFXI. I hope 2.0 remedies that.
#91 Jul 25 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration wrote:

It's a bit high IMHO. During P3 I would give the game a 75% maybe. The invisible walls, lack of interesting boss mechanics, and snoozefest GCD are the only things holding this game back. These things aren't important to everyone, but they're very important to me. If they work on that, which I'm sure they will, this game would be an easy 9/10 for me.

More interesting boss mechanics could happen. I'm not so sure about the walls and lowering the GCD though.
#92 Jul 25 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Transmigration wrote:

It's a bit high IMHO. During P3 I would give the game a 75% maybe. The invisible walls, lack of interesting boss mechanics, and snoozefest GCD are the only things holding this game back. These things aren't important to everyone, but they're very important to me. If they work on that, which I'm sure they will, this game would be an easy 9/10 for me.

More interesting boss mechanics could happen. I'm not so sure about the walls and lowering the GCD though.


Regardless of Yoshi's current stance, as the game progresses if enough people voice their issues, I think there is a good chance that they'll be addressed. The GCD is a problem to a lot of people right now on the main forums, so I'm not alone. Invisible walls are a long shot though, I agree. Much less game breaking than the other 2 issues however.

I think the main cause of battle pace and mechanic issues is that Yoshi has a tendency to underestimate his players. He said he wants people to transition over from other MMOs (WoW for example), but he makes the battle system and mechanics easier than in their current MMO. I've even read that the dungeons in beta were a little more difficult than they will be for release. That's a bit unnerving to me.

2.0 has a really good chance right now to headhunt and snatch up people that are tired of the same MMO they've been playing everyday for years, but want something that retains the classic trinity and mmo formula. I know quite of a few people like this. With the speed of updates and giant expansions these other MMOs have though, SE has a tough job of retaining players for more than a few months. Their best chance at doing so is to match the level of complexity and challenge offered in other MMOs while staying far away from AV style fights that offer timesinks instead of actual mechanics requiring reaction time and team work. I'm optimistic and I think they can pull it off if they take feedback seriously and continue to look at other games for inspiration.

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 12:56pm by Transmigration
#93 Jul 25 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
Transmigration wrote:

It's a bit high IMHO. During P3 I would give the game a 75% maybe. The invisible walls, lack of interesting boss mechanics, and snoozefest GCD are the only things holding this game back. These things aren't important to everyone, but they're very important to me. If they work on that, which I'm sure they will, this game would be an easy 9/10 for me.

More interesting boss mechanics could happen. I'm not so sure about the walls and lowering the GCD though.


Regardless of Yoshi's current stance, as the game progresses if enough people voice their issues, I think there is a good chance that they'll be addressed. The GCD is a problem to a lot of people right now on the main forums, so I'm not alone. Invisible walls are a long shot though, I agree. Much less game breaking than the other 2 issues however.


It's not just "Yoshi's current stance." The GCD is a core game feature. The combat pace is not supposed to be as fast as WoW or GW2. If it changes, it won't be soon and it won't be much.

It's a game meant to accessible to console owners and noobs, and noobs who own consoles. The twitch factor looks likw it's always going to be low compared to other MMOs.
#94 Jul 25 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
Transmigration wrote:

It's a bit high IMHO. During P3 I would give the game a 75% maybe. The invisible walls, lack of interesting boss mechanics, and snoozefest GCD are the only things holding this game back. These things aren't important to everyone, but they're very important to me. If they work on that, which I'm sure they will, this game would be an easy 9/10 for me.

More interesting boss mechanics could happen. I'm not so sure about the walls and lowering the GCD though.


Regardless of Yoshi's current stance, as the game progresses if enough people voice their issues, I think there is a good chance that they'll be addressed. The GCD is a problem to a lot of people right now on the main forums, so I'm not alone. Invisible walls are a long shot though, I agree. Much less game breaking than the other 2 issues however.


It's not just "Yoshi's current stance." The GCD is a core game feature. The combat pace is not supposed to be as fast as WoW or GW2. If it changes, it won't be soon and it won't be much.

It's a game meant to accessible to console owners and noobs, and noobs who own consoles. The twitch factor looks likw it's always going to be low compared to other MMOs.


That's unfortunate, but most likely true. It seems they'll be holding their own game back for the sake of people that only play with controllers.
#95 Jul 25 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
Transmigration wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
Transmigration wrote:

It's a bit high IMHO. During P3 I would give the game a 75% maybe. The invisible walls, lack of interesting boss mechanics, and snoozefest GCD are the only things holding this game back. These things aren't important to everyone, but they're very important to me. If they work on that, which I'm sure they will, this game would be an easy 9/10 for me.

More interesting boss mechanics could happen. I'm not so sure about the walls and lowering the GCD though.


Regardless of Yoshi's current stance, as the game progresses if enough people voice their issues, I think there is a good chance that they'll be addressed. The GCD is a problem to a lot of people right now on the main forums, so I'm not alone. Invisible walls are a long shot though, I agree. Much less game breaking than the other 2 issues however.


It's not just "Yoshi's current stance." The GCD is a core game feature. The combat pace is not supposed to be as fast as WoW or GW2. If it changes, it won't be soon and it won't be much.

It's a game meant to accessible to console owners and noobs, and noobs who own consoles. The twitch factor looks likw it's always going to be low compared to other MMOs.


That's unfortunate, but most likely true. It seems they'll be holding their own game back for the sake of people that only play with controllers.


The majority of game sales and subs will be from consoles, just like XI was. So Im not surprised and neither should you that its catered to a controller.
#96REDACTED, Posted: Jul 25 2013 at 4:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I rated you down because I don't like you.
#97 Jul 25 2013 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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ClydesShadow wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:


Seriously I got downrated for this? Whats wrong with you people?


I rated you down because I don't like you.


And I, in turn, rated you down because that sort of attitude you're projecting is just as much of a problem to this community.

Seriously guys, button it up already.
#98 Jul 25 2013 at 7:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Watch the ratings, if you're curious, the forum rules are here: http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Forum_Rules , specifically the Karma section.

Edit: Fixed the link

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 8:54pm by Wint
#99 Jul 25 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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210 posts
Wint wrote:
Watch the ratings, if you're curious, the forum rules are here: http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Forum_Rules, specifically the Karma section.


One of 2 things is broken: your link or my phone.
#100 Jul 25 2013 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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schneiderw wrote:
Wint wrote:
Watch the ratings, if you're curious, the forum rules are here: http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Forum_Rules, specifically the Karma section.


One of 2 things is broken: your link or my phone.


It's the link. The comma got pulled into the link. Just open it, remove the comma at the end of the url, reload the page, and then the rules page should appear.
#101 Jul 25 2013 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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kwenzeler wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
Wint wrote:
Watch the ratings, if you're curious, the forum rules are here: http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Forum_Rules, specifically the Karma section.


One of 2 things is broken: your link or my phone.


It's the link. The comma got pulled into the link. Just open it, remove the comma at the end of the url, reload the page, and then the rules page should appear.


Thanks! And don't judge me... it's my first day using a computer Smiley: lol
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