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Thoughts on Summoner Egi SizeFollow

#27 Jul 12 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
I thought the dev's reasoning for not making them big/the real thing was because they didn't want so many large summons running around.

I tend to agree, with respect to the lore, it kills immersion. (Sorry, Wint!)

I see the situation being a lot like Bahamut in FFXI. No one could summon him because he was the big boss celestial avatar. Having all SMNs just call him at any given point trivializes his existence.
#28 Jul 12 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
UltKnightGrover wrote:
I thought the dev's reasoning for not making them big/the real thing was because they didn't want so many large summons running around.

I tend to agree, with respect to the lore, it kills immersion. (Sorry, Wint!)

I see the situation being a lot like Bahamut in FFXI. No one could summon him because he was the big boss celestial avatar. Having all SMNs just call him at any given point trivializes his existence.


Smiley: laugh

I agree, I don't want them to be full sized, especially if they have the big versions that FC's can beat and summon.
#29 Jul 12 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
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153 posts
Hyrist wrote:
ClydesShadow wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
"Large Majority of American players."

... Zam polling says otherwise. When will people learn to just speak for themselves?


Hyrist you are very intelligent I can assess that by logical, thought provoking comments you generally make.... I made the comment based on the common sentiment I've seen on the forums I frequent, true... it's not scientific, but do you honestly believe the "Zam" poll above proves anything, beyond how to make a crappy poll?

First, the description leads you into picking a certain answer, by suggesting that the Japanese feel a particular way (which they don't... it's classic misinterpretation of another horribly made poll.) Two of the options describe descent against the Egi in it's current form and one of them favors it. No matter what happens in the results it will look like more people are for the Egi because the other options which think there needs to be some reworking are being deluded...

Anyways, you're right my comment was as presumptuous as the poll.



I take protest to the idea of 'common sentiment' the problem with this, as is with any forum, is that it can only represent the most vocal minority. Polling, however, is more anonymous and often can be done without coming under persecution, which, from my perspective, eases the availability to state opinion or share one's thoughts on the matter.

So while we can have what seems to be a large number of people decrying something, the larger number of people who are ok with it usually don't speak up.

This fails to be acknowledged when we seek confirmation bias - because we want to be 'right' as much as possible. This is where I get annoyed. We're too afraid as individuals to simply be wrong, or to simply stand on our own two feet in an argument these days, that we have to find some outside form of validation.

As far as the matter of whether or not the summoner's Egi's needs an adjustment? I feel apathetic on the issue. I am fine as they are, and my interest in Arcanist/Summoner has not changed. There should be no need for insulting or trying to assemble an intimidation crowd to bring what is effectively a personal aesthetic request.

I can understand the reasoning on SE's end for the down-scaling. I can understand the reasoning on the player's end for wanting them larger. My personal views on the matter is that I'm indifferent. I'm fine with the way they are, but I admonish the level of animosity and mob-forming being presented concerning them. This is not a matter to be outraged upon, in my opinion. The actual power of the class isn't being put into question, just the appearance of which. It does not feel like a consequential debate, but one of tastes.

It's like asking them to redesign Ifrit's spear because it's ugly.


I completely agree with your points, I even conceded that my original comments were presumptuous and not valid based on my claims of "common sentiment."

I mostly meant to point out the fact that there are several major leading errors in the polls listed above.
#30 Jul 12 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I mostly meant to point out the fact that there are several major leading errors in the polls listed above.


Instead of every thread devolving into a discussion on minutia revolving around some minor tedious detail (for example, how fair and balanced a random poll is which leads into a lesson on Communication and Statistical Theory), maybe.. just maybe... you could express an opinion related to the original post? And this isn't necessarily directed at you, it just seems that MOST threads derail this way lately...
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#31 Jul 12 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Default
It's not like I want them to be as big as the primals. Maybe the same size as an Elezen or so? I don't know. They're roughly the size of the baby vanity pets (ROUGHLY).

It's just not cool. And again, Titan has more issues than just size - haven't seen Garuda yet.

UltKnightGrover wrote:
I thought the dev's reasoning for not making them big/the real thing was because they didn't want so many large summons running around.

I tend to agree, with respect to the lore, it kills immersion. (Sorry, Wint!)


Is there anything in the lore that says the Egi needs to be puny...? Why can't they be a fraction of the primals' power but still be reasonably sized compared to the player character?

You could step on the current summons and squash them like a bug.

Edited, Jul 12th 2013 3:44pm by Killua125
#32 Jul 12 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
It's not like I want them to be as big as the primals. Maybe the same size as an Elezen or so? I don't know. They're roughly the size of the baby vanity pets (ROUGHLY).

It's just not cool. And again, Titan has more issues than just size - haven't seen Garuda yet.

UltKnightGrover wrote:
I thought the dev's reasoning for not making them big/the real thing was because they didn't want so many large summons running around.

I tend to agree, with respect to the lore, it kills immersion. (Sorry, Wint!)


Is there anything in the lore that says the Egi needs to be puny...? Why can't they be a fraction of the primals' power but still be reasonably sized compared to the player character?

You could step on the current summons and squash them like a bug.

Edited, Jul 12th 2013 3:44pm by Killua125


Well, that's exactly the thing being proposed. My question to you, would this help? I actually like this change, they are beefier and cooler looking.

Original

Screenshot


BEEFCAKE

Screenshot


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#33 Jul 12 2013 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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153 posts
Louiscool wrote:
ClydesShadow wrote:


Hyrist you are very intelligent I can assess that by logical, thought provoking comments you generally make.... I made the comment based on the common sentiment I've seen on the forums I frequent, true... it's not scientific, but do you honestly believe the "Zam" poll above proves anything, beyond how to make a crappy poll?


I went to the Japanese forums and read their comments, and from that I made a statement. You looked at the wording of the poll answers and decided the poll was worthless and so were the results.

Some excerpts from the responses:

-Was not disappointed
-I thought this production is good personally.
-Manifestation of power that are causative is 'size', which do no contradiction that way then yearn! (size =! power)
-When it comes to Summoner of high-level, to be able to use "fire of hell â—‹" is Ifrit-Egi. They consume a large amount of MP, using Ifrit-Egi is to Ifrit only for a moment to add summoned along with the magic square. And after activation powerful technique, back to Ifrit-Egi. I saw such a dream (It would be nice if they became the large version just to cast Hellfire, etc)


This said, there are not many responses to this thread, because its probably poorly auto-translated and not prime-Japanese-forum-time yet.


Louis, the reason I said the poll is worthless is because in my profession I in part have to be able to read academic research articles and understand when there may be bias/ collection error confounding the studies results. The poll listed above is guilty of more than one type of investigational bias... mostly based on how the questions are constructed.

Granted, I really don't want to get into an argument over something so trivial as the validity of a poll on a video game forum!

Egi big or small, the game is fricking awesome... so I'm happy!

Hyrist wrote:
Sidenote - grats on green Shadow.


Thank you!

Edited, Jul 12th 2013 4:44pm by ClydesShadow
#34 Jul 12 2013 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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i agree with the japanese that size doesn't equal power, but i also agree that the current size is a tad too small.

In those pictures above i believe the bigger model is, and should be, the perfect size for them. The origional just seems overly small, but maybe thats just me being used to summoner from XI. But even then the the bigger version is still smaller than XI's version.

Also, summons are not only about power but being real flashy and awe inspiring. The origional ifrit looks like if i blow on him, i'll put him out.
#35 Jul 12 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I did, my original post stated that I thought they could be bigger... and you're original post made the comment "Japanese don't think large = strong" etc.

I was making a point of response to each element of your OP.


My bad, my bad Smiley: smile

Quote:
academic research articles


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#36 Jul 12 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
"larger" is associated with more power, perhaps this doesn't apply to everything


I applaud everyone for staying on track after that very early comment.

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#37 Jul 12 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
I'm down with them being a little bigger. Bigger is cooler IMO.
#38 Jul 12 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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I think somewhere in-between beefcake and original would be my favorite size adjustment. I don't mind them being smalll. But I do mind the beefcake size, both from a controller, and a player perspective. If that things going to be in melee range, I don't want it to be imposing in my vision of positioning. And on the same vein, I want to be able to see what's happening to the monster.

But I don't mind an upsize from the origonal. I'm just thinking gameplay issues in the long haul. Remember, it's quite possible to have multiple of these things in on a raid.
#39 Jul 12 2013 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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153 posts
Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
I did, my original post stated that I thought they could be bigger... and you're original post made the comment "Japanese don't think large = strong" etc.

I was making a point of response to each element of your OP.


My bad, my bad Smiley: smile

Quote:
academic research articles


We have more in common than you know..


You work for an underground organization secretly working to bring twinkies back too? Small world!

Edit: I just googled it, apparently Twinkies are back as of March! Mission accomplished, good work Louis!

Thayos wrote:
Quote:
"larger" is associated with more power, perhaps this doesn't apply to everything


I applaud everyone for staying on track after that very early comment.



Smiley: lol


Edited, Jul 12th 2013 6:17pm by ClydesShadow
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