Class > Job :: Final Fantasy XIV (FFXIV, FF14)

Quote Reply

#77 Jul 11 2013 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

Hatamaz wrote:

sandpark wrote:

svlyons wrote:

Wint wrote:

So wait until the Ranger job is added to the game? We already know two jobs can spin from one class so it wouldn't be unheard of for RNG to be another job that comes from ARC down the road.

My prediction: Archers will complain that they're never allowed to come to end game events as Ranger because their shell makes them always come as Bard.

Same problem existed in XI if you had both ranger and bard leveled. And I'll tell the that guild the same thing I told them in XI.

"I was straightforward when joining that my main was Ranger and I did not want to do Bard in endgame events, you agreed. I understand you are short on Bard this evening. However, I will not play Bard as I told you before."

Any respectable good guild will have enough flexible members. Any respectable guild will not go back on their word or punish you for being upfront and sticking to your stance. And if they do maybe it's time to find a better guild.

You can always reinforce your stance by not unlocking bard gear or skills.

As long as that flexible member is not you? Smiley: tongue

Exactly! I don't mind coming as another job, as long as the job wasn't bard. Do you do things even though they go against your principles to make others happy or peer pressure?

I make exceptions to do that when it's something really important. I never hurt feelings intentionally unless I know that being honest is better for someone in the long run. But when it comes to a leisure activity like a game whose purpose is to relax and have fun? Hell yes, I won't bend an inch if I was honest and it's something I strongly feel about.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#78 Jul 11 2013 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1600647537255

Scholar

20 posts

Killua125 wrote:

Jujubah wrote:

svlyons wrote:

Wint wrote:

So wait until the Ranger job is added to the game? We already know two jobs can spin from one class so it wouldn't be unheard of for RNG to be another job that comes from ARC down the road.

My prediction: Archers will complain that they're never allowed to come to end game events as Ranger because their shell makes them always come as Bard.

I find the idea that someone else "allow or don't allow" you to play as something YOU want to play in a game so silly. Just group with people a little less narrow-minded or make your own LS. Of course, unless you want to do something stupid like Melee THM. It is somewhat obvious that Archer's second job will be Ranger but I'm sure it will have its advantages and reasons for being added to a party.
But I can see this trend going with Arcanist too, "Hey switch to SCH instead of SMN to heal us, we have enough DDs".

It's kind of silly to blame the players for a horrible game system. The job/class system is frankly not good at all.

It's natural in MMORPGs for a party to want to maximize efficiency. Why are you leveling up, acquiring gear? To maximize efficiency. It's silly when that's the whole goal of the game, to downgrade yourself to the Archer class for party play. It's also very selfish.

That said you are right about Arcanist which will likely be asked to play Scholar 99.9% of the time. Square Enix needs to abolish the job soul stone system asap and come up with something better.

and if a Ranger branch is added, you will also be seen as selfish if you play it instead of Bard at times, most likely. The whole thing just all around sucks.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 2:26am by Killua125

I think it might be too late to change that now. I don't think it is that bad, it is just that now the party roles are unequal. It is selfish to go Ranger instead of Bard because right now Bard is the ONLY support job. If for example, CNJ gets Geomancer to focus on buffs that are as good as BRD's or PUG gets Dancer as a healer that uses TP instead of MP, it can be viable for the party to use a Ranger or a Summoner instead of a BRD or SCH. Of course, it has to be very balanced as to not create a situation where X healer or Y buffer is always the best and the min-maxing only picks them.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#79 Jul 11 2013 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1675642754123

View User Forum

Sage

89 posts

svlyons wrote:

Wint wrote:

So wait until the Ranger job is added to the game? We already know two jobs can spin from one class so it wouldn't be unheard of for RNG to be another job that comes from ARC down the road.

My prediction: Archers will complain that they're never allowed to come to end game events as Ranger because their shell makes them always come as Bard.

Deja Vu all over again???? I swear I made the worst mistake of my ffxi career by forgetting to /anon while on my 75 BRD......THE ONE TIME EVER! My LS was like "OMFG WHY TF DIDNT YOU TELL US?!?!?" I dont think I logged in for about a week or two >_>

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#80 Jul 11 2013 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1682900301165

Scholar

2,153 posts

IMFW wrote:

K that makes way more sense, people kept telling me how jobs where better, and it was makeing me think "how is these 5 abilities from the job better then the abilties from the class" but since you get them all, i see how it is better you get more abilties lol, thanks again guys.

Just wish it was alittle different from that, i love tanking but never really caried for paladins, but it looks like ill have to get used to it, id rather just be a gladiator, i dont know well see when i get to that point, it just feels like i have to be paladin.

Well, you could still choose to play Marauder/Warrior. Because they are every inch as tanky as Gladiators/Paladins, just with different mechanics.
(Although People on the beta forums obviously have Problems wrapping their heads around that idea. Maybe it`s because it takes some time to
fully understand the synergies between Warrior main and subclass abilities; Paladin mechanics, being straightforward, are "easier" to understand).

P.S., edit: Btw, Marauders/Warriors are classified as tanks, not DDs, in the content finder. They share the heaviest armor with Gladiators/Paladins;
and then they look like a huge towering looming sausage of steel.

http://privateerpress.com/files/products/iron-kingdoms/cygnar-city-guard.png

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 8:43am by Rinsui

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#81 Jul 11 2013 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good

Hyrist

View User Forum

Sage

4,780 posts

'My LS diddn't let me go on...'

That would be irrelevant, honestly. Duty Finder fills people in anonymously by role. Meaning if a Ranger Queues up to the Duty Finder looking for a group, he'll eventually find one in the role he wants. He just has to be ok with finding a pug, or finding people that share his views. No big deal.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#82 Jul 11 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1691972196123

Sage

5,745 posts

Killua125 wrote:

Jujubah wrote:

svlyons wrote:

Wint wrote:

So wait until the Ranger job is added to the game? We already know two jobs can spin from one class so it wouldn't be unheard of for RNG to be another job that comes from ARC down the road.

My prediction: Archers will complain that they're never allowed to come to end game events as Ranger because their shell makes them always come as Bard.

I find the idea that someone else "allow or don't allow" you to play as something YOU want to play in a game so silly. Just group with people a little less narrow-minded or make your own LS. Of course, unless you want to do something stupid like Melee THM. It is somewhat obvious that Archer's second job will be Ranger but I'm sure it will have its advantages and reasons for being added to a party.
But I can see this trend going with Arcanist too, "Hey switch to SCH instead of SMN to heal us, we have enough DDs".

It's kind of silly to blame the players for a horrible game system. The job/class system is frankly not good at all.

Then you must consider FFXI to have a "horrible game system". Because, as others have mentioned, this problem happened in FFXI even with there being absolutely no relationship between jobs.

The only difference here is that leveling RNG (assuming it becomes a 2nd job off of ARC) forces you to have BRD also leveled. In FFXI, you wouldn't have both RNG and BRD leveled unless you actively leveled them separately. I suppose you could simply not do the quest to unlock BRD and getting any job specific gear and skills.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#83 Jul 11 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1617582086177

972 posts

Except if you level one job, you automatically have another job leveled.

So that's not like FFXI at all and the problem wasn't present in FFXI. WTF?

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#84 Jul 11 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1707092191686

Sage

1,218 posts

Killua125 wrote:

Except if you level one job, you automatically have another job leveled.

So that's not like FFXI at all and the problem wasn't present in FFXI. WTF?

You have to actually do quests to unlock that soul and the abilities that go with it, so it's still a conscious choice.

Either way, some free companies are going to make due with whatever is available and others are going to recruit specific jobs or expect people to play certain jobs.

Taking away the player's flexibility is not going to change that in any way. Either your group respects your desire to play what you feel like playing, or they'll replace you with some one who can play the needed job.

"I don't have that unlocked" is only relevant if you dont have the spine to day "I don't want to play as that."

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 12:22pm by KarlHungis

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#85 Jul 11 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

Killua125 wrote:

Except if you level one job, you automatically have another job leveled.

So that's not like FFXI at all and the problem wasn't present in FFXI. WTF?

I don't want to seem smartass but you're not making sense.

FFXI- Leveled seperately, didn't level bard no problem, if you did get the peer pressure.
FFXIV- Leveled together, didn't unlock job/gear/kills for bard is no problem, if you did get peer pressure.

Same problem existed there if you had both jobs. You don't have to unlock bard here either.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#86 Jul 11 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1691972196123

Sage

5,745 posts

Killua125 wrote:

Except if you level one job, you automatically have another job leveled.

So that's not like FFXI at all and the problem wasn't present in FFXI. WTF?

Are you and I talking about the same problem? Because the problem did exist in FFXI in spite of how the job system was implemented. It's a community issue that players have to learn to deal with.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#87 Jul 11 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1636935586508

Scholar

262 posts

sandpark wrote:

Exactly! I don't mind coming as another job, as long as the job wasn't bard. Do you do things even though they go against your principles to make others happy or peer pressure?

I make exceptions to do that when it's something really important. I never hurt feelings intentionally unless I know that being honest is better for someone in the long run. But when it comes to a leisure activity like a game whose purpose is to relax and have fun? Hell yes, I won't bend an inch if I was honest and it's something I strongly feel about.

Then why did you lvl bard at all? I come from the angle and mindset that if there is a night that my free company needs me to come as a certain job that I have leveled I'll do it because I want to actually be a useful member to the group to go have fun and get things done. If there is a job I don't like, I'm not going to level it so therefore I'll never get asked to come as that job. Of course there will be times I want to go as another job just to have a change, and I'm sure those opportunities will arise.

It's not about a group "making" me go as a job I don't want to. It's about what are we going to need tonight to get through whatever content we're about to take on. I guess maybe I'm just that flexible player that you talk about. I just think it's selfish if a player absolutely refuses to help the group because of game "principles"??? that they won't go on a job that the group needs and is the only one that has it leveled and is available at the time.

▲ Page top

#88 REDACTED, Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 10:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Here's what I'm saying.

Quote Reply

#89 Jul 11 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1626654355787

Guru

655 posts

Killua125 wrote:

Here's what I'm saying.

FF14: If you're on level 50 Summoner, your whole party KNOWS you have Scholar, and they WILL ask you to switch to be a healer.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 12:40pm by Killua125

Not 100% true.. arcanist + Thm = summoner arcanist +cnj = scholar ( im assuming they are the matches) so if somone never levels there cnj to 15 than no they will not have scholar.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#90 Jul 11 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good

Hyrist

View User Forum

Sage

4,780 posts

Killua125 wrote:

Here's what I'm saying.

FF14: If you're a level 50 Summoner, and you unlock Scholar, you WILL have a level 50 Scholar.

FF11: If you are a level 75 Summoner, and you unlocked Scholar, it's level 1.

FF14: If you're on level 50 Summoner, your whole party KNOWS you have Scholar, and they WILL ask you to switch to be a healer.

FF11: If you're on a level 75 Summoner, nobody knows what level your Scholar is. It could be 1.

I'm really tired so don't make me explain further and defend it. I really don't care if you wanna defend it.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 12:40pm by Killua125

That's what you're saying, but this is what you should be meaning.

You have a level 50 Arcanist. Period.

You unlock Scholar and Summoner, both separate modes for your Arcanist.

The mods just happen to be called jobs. You never really stop being an Arcanist, you're just specializing a part of Arcanist you couldn't fully utilize without the Scholar or Summoner Forms.

Jobs serve the function of Class Mods or Skill Trees.

You're trying to draw an analogy to FFXI when there is none. There were no classes in FFXI. You can't aptly compare them. Nor can you consider Jobs a core separating Component. Characters are defined first by their Class, then by the Job Stone they equip. Not the other way around.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#91 Jul 11 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1691972196123

Sage

5,745 posts

Killua125 wrote:

I'm really tired so don't make me explain further and defend it. I really don't care if you wanna defend it.

No one is forcing you to do anything. You're trying to argue that an issue is due to game design. I think it's a people problem.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#92 Jul 11 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

Hatamaz wrote:

sandpark wrote:

Exactly! I don't mind coming as another job, as long as the job wasn't bard. Do you do things even though they go against your principles to make others happy or peer pressure?

I make exceptions to do that when it's something really important. I never hurt feelings intentionally unless I know that being honest is better for someone in the long run. But when it comes to a leisure activity like a game whose purpose is to relax and have fun? Hell yes, I won't bend an inch if I was honest and it's something I strongly feel about.

Then why did you lvl bard at all? I come from the angle and mindset that if there is a night that my free company needs me to come as a certain job that I have leveled I'll do it because I want to actually be a useful member to the group to go have fun and get things done. If there is a job I don't like, I'm not going to level it so therefore I'll never get asked to come as that job. Of course there will be times I want to go as another job just to have a change, and I'm sure those opportunities will arise.

It's not about a group "making" me go as a job I don't want to. It's about what are we going to need tonight to get through whatever content we're about to take on. I guess maybe I'm just that flexible player that you talk about. I just think it's selfish if a player absolutely refuses to help the group because of game "principles"??? that they won't go on a job that the group needs and is the only one that has it leveled and is available at the time.

I leveled bard because I like experience points parties on it.

No selfish is everyone else not having leveled bard. And then trying to force someone who has informed them they don't do bard endgame, but they will gladly help on some other jobs besides bard.

If sacrificing your beliefs or idea of fun for the group is meaningful to you, that's your opinion.

My opinion is my own. I said I would make exceptions just not on bard. But I'm not in the habit of doing leisure activities I find no enjoyment in to make others happy.
If that makes me a selfish prick, jerk, or just a genuine person. I guess I'll just live with it.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#93 Jul 11 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1659313212650

Sage

352 posts

Reading the last bit of this threads reminds me why i never care for end game, so many up tight people. No one is willing to try different things and everything is "set in stone" to them, but hey its the nature of the beast i guess. Thats the main reason ill run my own LS and Free company so i can be a level 50 gladiator tank, just dont care for paladin that much. GoldTeam for life!!

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#94 Jul 11 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1600647537255

Scholar

20 posts

Not having the second job unlocked and with skills will 100% be considered "gimp" by most of the community.

▲ Page top

Class > JobFollow