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Beta Test Phase 3 Schedule (07/10/2013-07/15/2013)Follow

#27 Jul 08 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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ClydesShadow wrote:
princessary wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Battle system revisions ? Wonder what they mean.


Hopefully they are going to fix the Archers mechanic that allows them to fire at an enemy while faceing any direction they wish (as it is, ARC don't have to straf while kiting, they can just run in the opposite direction while continuing to attack and use their skills) and while jumping around like a loon.


I'm not sure if they've commented on this already or not, but I think adding in a "sweet-spot" range for ARC would be an interesting schematic to make the battle system more dynamic for that class... Maybe the damage would be optimal from say 10-12 yalms away, and perhaps there could be some sort of indicator to let you know you've entered or left this range.

It seems like it would be easy enough to add without stealing from resources... it would also make the class much more engaging.


This is exactly how ranger worked in FFXI. There was no indicator other than an increase in your damage per shot/WS. It also effected accuracy. I'd rather have something like, if you shoot from in close you have 100% acc, but much lower attack and the farther out you go, your acc lowers but your attack increases.


Edited, Jul 8th 2013 3:03pm by BartelX
#28 Jul 08 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Ahh crap... I actually thought this phase was over. Finally would have a chance to play more than just sat and guess what?... I am out of town for 4 days..

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#29 Jul 08 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You have to be far enough away for an arrow to reach max velocity, but it's harder to hit a target from farther.


Arrows get faster the further they get from the bow?
#30 Jul 08 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe they're like M203 grenades and need about 15 meters before the arrow is armed?

Screenshot
Click picture to enlarge.


Edited, Jul 8th 2013 2:34pm by lolgaxe
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#31 Jul 08 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Maybe they're like M203 grenades and need about 15 meters before the arrow is armed?


Duh. I'm dumb. In a world where "gun-halberds" are commonplace OF COURSE arrows take 15 yalms (gross word) to arm.
#32 Jul 08 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Maybe they're like M203 grenades and need about 15 meters before the arrow is armed?

Screenshot
Click picture to enlarge.

You always have the best images. Smiley: nod
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#33 Jul 08 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
ClydesShadow wrote:
princessary wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Battle system revisions ? Wonder what they mean.


Hopefully they are going to fix the Archers mechanic that allows them to fire at an enemy while faceing any direction they wish (as it is, ARC don't have to straf while kiting, they can just run in the opposite direction while continuing to attack and use their skills) and while jumping around like a loon.


I'm not sure if they've commented on this already or not, but I think adding in a "sweet-spot" range for ARC would be an interesting schematic to make the battle system more dynamic for that class... Maybe the damage would be optimal from say 10-12 yalms away, and perhaps there could be some sort of indicator to let you know you've entered or left this range.

It seems like it would be easy enough to add without stealing from resources... it would also make the class much more engaging.


This is exactly how ranger worked in FFXI. There was no indicator other than an increase in your damage per shot/WS. It also effected accuracy. I'd rather have something like, if you shoot from in close you have 100% acc, but much lower attack and the farther out you go, your acc lowers but your attack increases.


Edited, Jul 8th 2013 3:03pm by BartelX



I like that idea too... I'm mostly thinking of ideas which would make the class a bit more interactive.

Your idea makes a lot of sense practically, and I believe it would be easy to implement.

Yostis wrote:
I didn't rate you down (and not sure why someone would) but that doesn't seem that interesting of an idea. I would be opposed, just don't think it adds much.

If there were different skills for Archer or Bard that responded differently depending on range (in terms of effect or power), then that would interest me.


Yeah I definitely don't think it's the most innovative idea of all time, I'm just trying to think of easy to add elements that SE could throw in, in order to improve the battle system... which is easily the biggest knock on the game so far, justified or not.

I am fine with the battle system, I definitely think there are definitely some elements that could be tweaked though which could add to the immersion of the system.

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 3:52pm by ClydesShadow
#34 Jul 08 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yotis wrote:
Quote:
You have to be far enough away for an arrow to reach max velocity, but it's harder to hit a target from farther.


Arrows get faster the further they get from the bow?


Don't horizontally propelled projectiles start at max velocity and then decrease velocity due to gravitational and wind resistance forces?
#35 Jul 08 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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For the Archer's sweet spot I would think that should affect accuracy more than damage. Maybe the further outside the sweet spot the less likely you hit your target. Same with how well you are facing them also impacting accuracy. Damage I would hope is not impacted by these since if you hit the mark you hit the mark, but instead if you are allowed to shoot far enough away that you begin to lose arrow velocity while still hitting your target only then should damage decrease. Same if you are too close that your arrow can't reach max velocity, assuming that is viable from a physics standpoint, I don't know. Just my 2 cents.

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 4:12pm by ErikHighwind
#36 Jul 08 2013 at 2:12 PM Rating: Default
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ErikHighwind wrote:
For the Archer's sweet spot I would think that should affect accuracy more than damage. Maybe the further outside the sweet spot the less likely you hit your target. Same with how well you are facing them also impacting accuracy. Damage I would hope is not impacted by these since if you hit the mark you hit the mark, but instead if you are allowed to shoot far enough away that you begin to lose arrow velocity while still hitting your target only then should damage decrease. Just my 2 cents.

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 4:09pm by ErikHighwind


What the would the incentive be to not just stand 3-4 feet away from standard targets?

Edit ahhh I see you're suggesting a sweet spot for max accuracy.

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 4:18pm by je355804
#37 Jul 08 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Right, I had to edit that in :)

I guess to be more clear, distance should only impact accuracy when you are farther away than the sweet spot (or range). Being closer should retain max accuracy the same as the sweet spot.

Independently from that what direction you are facing relative to your target should also impact accuracy.

Independently from that there should also be a sweet spot (or range) for damage that may or may not coincide with the sweet spot for accuracy, being based solely on which distances provide maximum arrow velocity.

I think to get the most fun out of it I would want 2 different ranges, one for accuracy and one for damage, that only overlap in a small window which would be what to strive for. If you could thread that needle maybe give a critical hit boost?

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 4:56pm by ErikHighwind
#38 Jul 08 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Kordain wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Have they mentioned when they'll be introducing Arcanist/Fisherman to the game? I'm worried about the idea of those first getting tested in open beta phase. Definitely wouldn't mind them extending Phase 3 to toss those into the testing fray earlier.


Arcanist et al won't be until retail release (IE, it won't be available test P4 either).

Fisherman, not sure m'fraid.


That seems like quite the gamble. I really hope there aren't any big bugs with the class at launch, because it'll definitely come back to bite them. That said, the game feels super polished. Nothing about it suggests "beta" to me at all, sans the missing classes.
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#39 Jul 08 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lol. Battle system revisions could mean anything.

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I really don't want to be tempted to log in anymore, but SE making it real difficult. :)
#40 Jul 08 2013 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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ErikHighwind wrote:
Right, I had to edit that in :)

I guess to be more clear, distance should only impact accuracy when you are farther away than the sweet spot (or range). Being closer should retain max accuracy the same as the sweet spot.

Independently from that what direction you are facing relative to your target should also impact accuracy.

Independently from that there should also be a sweet spot (or range) for damage that may or may not coincide with the sweet spot for accuracy, being based solely on which distances provide maximum arrow velocity.

I think to get the most fun out of it I would want 2 different ranges, one for accuracy and one for damage, that only overlap in a small window which would be what to strive for. If you could thread that needle maybe give a critical hit boost?

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 4:56pm by ErikHighwind


To flesh it out even further, it would be interesting if they added in something like glancing blows... where your arrow doesn't do crazy damage, but maybe adds a light DoT effect. Maybe have these occur when you are on the move, so you do less front end damage (and less overall), but still are able to kite effectively. If you're turned completely around I think it would be hilarious if you shot straight up, so basically the mob runs into your arrows on the way down. Could even make that a trap effect that you can only use when faced away from the mob. Could definitely add more depth to the class.
#41 Jul 08 2013 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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Yotis wrote:
Quote:
Check for server stress due to battle system revisions


I have no reason to think this but there's gotta be something *new* added to the battle system for there to be a need to "stress test" right? You wouldn't change code in a minor way (or even remove something) and then need to see how it would affect the server . . . right?

Yes, I haven't used my computer science degree in more than 8 years. I'm obviously shooting in the dark. But is there a problem with my logic?


As some one with a comp sci degree, you surely understand how quickly a small change can matter when it's part of a function that gets called millions of times per second. Something "new" might not be visible to players at all. Maybe they changed the way that predicted movement interacts with server objects (positional combat abilities, AoE effects, etc).

#42 Jul 08 2013 at 6:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Kordain wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Have they mentioned when they'll be introducing Arcanist/Fisherman to the game? I'm worried about the idea of those first getting tested in open beta phase. Definitely wouldn't mind them extending Phase 3 to toss those into the testing fray earlier.


Arcanist et al won't be until retail release (IE, it won't be available test P4 either).

Fisherman, not sure m'fraid.


That seems like quite the gamble. I really hope there aren't any big bugs with the class at launch, because it'll definitely come back to bite them. That said, the game feels super polished. Nothing about it suggests "beta" to me at all, sans the missing classes.


All this time Ive been thinking the same thing... I mean this is the first pet based class in the game and its not going to be tested by a large mass of players before release? At all??

It's almost like someone is saying "it'll be ok, I mean what could go wrong?"
...famous last words!
#43 Jul 08 2013 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
All this time Ive been thinking the same thing... I mean this is the first pet based class in the game and its not going to be tested by a large mass of players before release? At all??

It's almost like someone is saying "it'll be ok, I mean what could go wrong?"
...famous last words!


Are you suggesting that SE's QA staff can't route out all the bugs the way hundreds of thousands of beta testers could?

Because that sounds insane.
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#44 Jul 08 2013 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
Yotis wrote:
Quote:
Check for server stress due to battle system revisions


I have no reason to think this but there's gotta be something *new* added to the battle system for there to be a need to "stress test" right? You wouldn't change code in a minor way (or even remove something) and then need to see how it would affect the server . . . right?

Yes, I haven't used my computer science degree in more than 8 years. I'm obviously shooting in the dark. But is there a problem with my logic?


As some one with a comp sci degree, you surely understand how quickly a small change can matter when it's part of a function that gets called millions of times per second. Something "new" might not be visible to players at all. Maybe they changed the way that predicted movement interacts with server objects (positional combat abilities, AoE effects, etc).



Blah, yeah. I was just hoping for something . . . . bigger. Grasping at straws.

Just not feeling the combat system. Maybe it's just me.
#45 Jul 08 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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I'm kinda bummed about Arcanist not being available for P4 since our character data will most likely be saved. I wanted to take ACN up as my first 50, so I'll be behind all of those who are playing other classes. If early start is considered "retail", then at least I'll have a week since I bought the CE. If not, I guess I'll just focus on leveling everything to 20 or 30 in preparation. I would craft, but the craft I want to do is fishing. Go figure, haha. Smiley: laugh

Quote:
Blah, yeah. I was just hoping for something . . . . bigger. Grasping at straws.

Just not feeling the combat system. Maybe it's just me.


It still needs quite a bit of work imo too, but it's miles ahead of 1.0. I still think the GCD needs to be lowered. Yoshi mentioned that later on there will be many abilities and it would be difficult to keep up with the cool downs, but I think he's underestimating his players.

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 9:28pm by Transmigration
#46 Jul 10 2013 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
I'm kinda bummed about Arcanist not being available for P4 since our character data will most likely be saved. I wanted to take ACN up as my first 50, so I'll be behind all of those who are playing other classes. If early start is considered "retail", then at least I'll have a week since I bought the CE. If not, I guess I'll just focus on leveling everything to 20 or 30 in preparation. I would craft, but the craft I want to do is fishing. Go figure, haha. Smiley: laugh


Agreed. I also wanted to have my characters starter city as Limsa, so I guess I will be rolling MRD.... despite my really really not wanting to.
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