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Ponytail issues Follow

#27 Jul 09 2013 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good

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reptiletim wrote:

Thats one slippery slope you got there man. Are you ok with the way parts of your character clip through each other, especially in the screenshots?

To use your own logical fallacy against you, I could then assume if you're ok with that then you're ok with being able to clip through terrain, getting stuck in the environment, and broken quests that can never be completed. You're also implying you can see the future if the issue is actually addressed.

I dont see any problem reporting this issue. I think SE knows better than any of us if this kind of issue is reasonably fixable, but as beta testers we're supposed to report bugs as we see them and let them sort it out. None of this "well they wont fix it anyway so why report it" business.

Come on. Are you really comparing getting stuck in the environment and broken quests with the tip of your hair clipping through your back? You misunderstood. It's not that I won't report it because 'I know they won't fix it'. I wouldn't report it because I know about 3D modeling and programming. The only thing posting about that will do is have them reconsider releasing anything else in the future that may cause a 'problem'. Why do you think none of the console FF games had changing armor and such? You got it...clipping issues! Easier for them to fine tune one model with one set of gear, hell they make the one model, gear and all and not have to worry about it. I'd rather have a wide diversity of gear/hairstyles reflected on my character with some minor clipping than be forced to go through the game looking pretty much the same from point A to point B.

Your free to report anything you want and I'm of no mind to tell you what you can or can't report. I'm just saying be careful, because this issue isn't going away anytime soon and will just cause them to be more careful about content if too many people have issues with it.

Edited, Jul 9th 2013 8:49am by DragonBourne

#28 Jul 09 2013 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good

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I'm personally not up in arms over it but to be honest it could be a little less obvious. I mean look at the screenshots in this thread. In the OP the pic with the ponytail clipping into her bare back, I mean come on. Thats just too obvious. She's not even wearing armor.

#29 Jul 09 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good

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Quote:

Come on. Are you really comparing getting stuck in the environment and broken quests with the tip of your hair clipping through your back? You misunderstood.

All I was doing was pointing out your slippery slope fallacy man. I used an illustration that was absurd on purpose.

On the issue, I'd be fine if they removed the worst offending hairstyles or at least added some alternatives. Overall the character models are excellent and looks like they would only need some minor tweaks for some of the issues reported.

Edited, Jul 9th 2013 9:01am by reptiletim

#30 Jul 09 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good

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reptiletim wrote:

I'm personally not up in arms over it but to be honest it could be a little less obvious. I mean look at the screenshots in this thread. In the OP the pic with the ponytail clipping into her bare back, I mean come on. Thats just too obvious. She's not even wearing armor.

Fair enough, but I still think it's being nit-picky. If it's as obvious as you say, I'm sure SE is aware of it anyhow. I'm just worried that too many people will gripe about too many little things and ruin the game as a whole. (I don't have to mention other games here for people to realize that it has happened in the past and probably will many times to come.) Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but please, try to be rational about things you find as an issue. I guess the good thing is the game must be pretty polished if this is the best someone could come up with. :P Thanks for listening.

#31 Jul 09 2013 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good

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We have to gripe about everything. We have to.

People kept making excuses for SE in 1.0 and look where that got us.

#32 Jul 09 2013 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good

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Catwho wrote:

We have to gripe about everything. We have to.

People kept making excuses for SE in 1.0 and look where that got us.

Do you think once 2.0 is officially launched, 1.0 will be shoved under the rug, never to be mentioned or thought of again by the powers that be?

"1.0? What's that? The game has always been this awesome. We never make mistakes."

*Hair clips through back while sitting*

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#33 Jul 09 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good

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I think its the little things that matter. If they cant stop hair from entering your back than how good will they be at end game mechanics are they gonna be simple because meh there ok ppl wont care? where is the line for them to care?

This is a MMO our characters are the point.. we connect we live and lvl them. If there glitchy than whats the point? Do we need to wait till our legs and arms are poking outta our gear? or our boobs sticking outta the chest plates? its all the same so they better get a handle on this be for it gets worse.

#34 Jul 09 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent

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silverhope wrote:

I think its the little things that matter. If they cant stop hair from entering your back than how good will they be at end game mechanics are they gonna be simple because meh there ok ppl wont care? where is the line for them to care?

This is a MMO our characters are the point.. we connect we live and lvl them. If there glitchy than whats the point? Do we need to wait till our legs and arms are poking outta our gear? or our boobs sticking outta the chest plates? its all the same so they better get a handle on this be for it gets worse.

No, I agree with you, they should totally fix it. It would bother me enough. But I know well enough long hair usually becomes an issue in games... so I stick to short hair most of the time.

Though, if you haven't noticed, when you equip helmets and such, the hair actually remains in tact and doesn't become another hairstyle (nor do you randomly become bald...) Which is important to me because helmets won't bother me so much.

Edited, Jul 9th 2013 11:26am by Stilivan

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#35 Jul 09 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent

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Quote:

I think its the little things that matter. If they cant stop hair from entering your back than how good will they be at end game mechanics are they gonna be simple because meh there ok ppl wont care? where is the line for them to care?

Do you really think those things are equivalent?

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#36 Jul 09 2013 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good

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Stilivan wrote:

No, I agree with you, they should totally fix it. It would bother me enough. But I know well enough long hair usually becomes an issue in games... so I stick to short hair most of the time.

Though, if you haven't noticed, when you equip helmets and such, the hair actually remains in tact and doesn't become another hairstyle (nor do you randomly become bald...) Which is important to me because helmets won't bother me so much.

haha yea im happy no one is going bald. I like the girl in the pics i posted I will stick with her but it will cause some "uhg" moments like when she sprints her ponytail is pretty much gone. You would think it would go out and fly around nope goes right into the back again heh.

#37 Jul 09 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent

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Archmage Callinon wrote:

Quote:

I think its the little things that matter. If they cant stop hair from entering your back than how good will they be at end game mechanics are they gonna be simple because meh there ok ppl wont care? where is the line for them to care?

Do you really think those things are equivalent?

was a crazy example for a reason. But the way people are talking is that if its not game breaking it doesnt matter.. but thats not true..

Edited, Jul 9th 2013 11:32am by silverhope

#38 Jul 09 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent

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silverhope wrote:

Archmage Callinon wrote:

Quote:

I think its the little things that matter. If they cant stop hair from entering your back than how good will they be at end game mechanics are they gonna be simple because meh there ok ppl wont care? where is the line for them to care?

Do you really think those things are equivalent?

was a crazy example for a reason. But the way people are talking is that if its not game breaking it doesnt matter.. but thats not true..

Edited, Jul 9th 2013 11:32am by silverhope

I agree that it's worth giving feedback about anything you don't like. It's worth reporting anything you perceive as a bug. But there is definitely a hierarchy to these things, and this one should fall squarely into the "would be nice, but whatever" category Smiley: wink

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#39 Jul 09 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent

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Quote:

was a crazy example for a reason. But the way people are talking is that if its not game breaking it doesnt matter.. but thats not true..

I don't think it's so much that no one cares because it's not game breaking. I think it's more people realize that the effort and resources needed to make hair ideal are not currently worth what it would add to the game. Especially at a phase when a large portion of the feedback they are receiving is in regard to game changing/breaking (for some people) core mechanics.

#40 Jul 09 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good

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Have you seen the movie Brave? I know movies and games are done differently and not at all the same, but that has to be the most impressive CG hair I have ever seen. And they put a ton of effort into it. Honestly the hair clipping issues don't bother me, but in another decade or so, it'd be awesome to have that kind of detail in games.

#41 Jul 09 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Default

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This thread is proving to be amusing ...

i remember when i started gaming in the late 80s (yes im sure im older than most here) i never imagined in my wildest dreams that i will be able to play live with ppl 5000 miles away ...

THIS IS 2013
THIS IS Final Fantasy FOURTEEN 2.0 (i cried of joy when ff7 came out and i saw the graphics)
there are too many MMORPGs out there

YES we demand perfection from Square ENEX (i still call them squaresoft)

i went to that post and clicked like ^__^

#42 Jul 09 2013 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good

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RedLeo wrote:

This thread is proving to be amusing ...

i remember when i started gaming in the late 80s (yes im sure im older than most here) i never imagined in my wildest dreams that i will be able to play live with ppl 5000 miles away ...

THIS IS 2013
THIS IS Final Fantasy FOURTEEN 2.0 (i cried of joy when ff7 came out and i saw the graphics)
there are too many MMORPGs out there

YES we demand perfection from Square ENEX (i still call them squaresoft)

i went to that post and clicked like ^__^

Not that I'm as old as you, but I remember back when FF7 was released, the graphics were AWESOME, but no one in their right mind thought they were realistic. Except for the CG cutscenes maybe... I think I actually referred to them as a "real scene!" I was a kid.

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#43 Jul 09 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent

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Stilivan wrote:

RedLeo wrote:

This thread is proving to be amusing ...

i remember when i started gaming in the late 80s (yes im sure im older than most here) i never imagined in my wildest dreams that i will be able to play live with ppl 5000 miles away ...

THIS IS 2013
THIS IS Final Fantasy FOURTEEN 2.0 (i cried of joy when ff7 came out and i saw the graphics)
there are too many MMORPGs out there

YES we demand perfection from Square ENEX (i still call them squaresoft)

i went to that post and clicked like ^__^

Not that I'm as old as you, but I remember back when FF7 was released, the graphics were AWESOME, but no one in their right mind thought they were realistic. Except for the CG cutscenes maybe... I think I actually referred to them as a "real scene!" I was a kid.

It is impressive how much they've changed. Lots of baby steps, but with so many game makers contributing these baby steps it does add up to a lot of innovation.

#44 Jul 09 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good

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Ulman wrote:

Have you seen the movie Brave? I know movies and games are done differently and not at all the same, but that has to be the most impressive CG hair I have ever seen. And they put a ton of effort into it. Honestly the hair clipping issues don't bother me, but in another decade or so, it'd be awesome to have that kind of detail in games.

Most movies/cutscenes don't actually render the hair. An artist goes in and draws the hair in each frame manually. Of course, this is becoming less and less these days, as workstations are getting powerful enough to do it in real time. Haven't see Brave, but that could be the case with it. Not sure though, just pointing this out.

#45 Jul 09 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good

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Catwho wrote:

We have to gripe about everything. We have to.

People kept making excuses for SE in 1.0 and look where that got us.

Well, it wasn't me. Look up some of my posts on 1.0 and you'll see. I was staunchly against just accepting that... thing...

#46 Jul 09 2013 at 9:12 PM Rating: Default

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I vehemently reject the attitude and assumption that "all games do this, it is widely accepted, stop complaining". I know hair can be rendered in real time. Yes it would take a lot of time and money to make sure each style worked with each armor, weapon, shield and race...hire a whole team to do it and make an option in the settings to turn off real time hair rendering if you are worried about weak systems. I am sure SE isn't going to be hurting for money as FFXIV is released. Why not make their product perfect? Details matter to me, and I doubt I am alone.

#47 Jul 09 2013 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good

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WhtxKorean wrote:

I vehemently reject the attitude and assumption that "all games do this, it is widely accepted, stop complaining". I know hair can be rendered in real time. Yes it would take a lot of time and money to make sure each style worked with each armor, weapon, shield and race...hire a whole team to do it and make an option in the settings to turn off real time hair rendering if you are worried about weak systems. I am sure SE isn't going to be hurting for money as FFXIV is released. Why not make their product perfect? Details matter to me, and I doubt I am alone.

I mean, yeah... they COULD spend their money on new content, new classes/jobs, and new zones... OR.. OPTION B, they could blow their load all over hiring a team of 3d hair stylists

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#48 Jul 09 2013 at 9:56 PM Rating: Default

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Quote:

I mean, yeah... they COULD spend their money on new content, new classes/jobs, and new zones... OR.. OPTION B, they could blow their load all over hiring a team of 3d hair stylists

That is why I hired another team. You are assuming that something would be taken away by adding this new team. And I am assuming that nothing would be taken away by adding this new team. Of course they don't have unlimited resources, but not enough to make hair work as we would expect? Not sure about that.

#49 Jul 10 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent

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WhtxKorean wrote:

Quote:

I mean, yeah... they COULD spend their money on new content, new classes/jobs, and new zones... OR.. OPTION B, they could blow their load all over hiring a team of 3d hair stylists

That is why I hired another team. You are assuming that something would be taken away by adding this new team. And I am assuming that nothing would be taken away by adding this new team. Of course they don't have unlimited resources, but not enough to make hair work as we would expect? Not sure about that.

Money is taken away. Developers aren't free, and money spent making hair work perfectly is money NOT spent doing something else.

When you consider that the engine isn't capable of that level of physics simulation, that means that the engine itself needs to be modified to handle it on top of modifying the hair models themselves to behave within an untested engine.

This is not a simple matter. Would it be nice? Sure. Would I rather they spend their time doing something else? Yep.

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