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#77 Jun 30 2013 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
i thought everyone would be loving this game and to me his post was a little constructive. and people are discussing pros and cons and likes and dislikes so
#78 Jun 30 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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424 posts
IDK, WoW was pretty easy for me. I had a max level rogue during Cataclysm, and I never once felt like it was ever the most challenging thing I had ever done in a Video game.

Obviously, if you play it on the hard modes, it's going to be hard. What video game in the history of video games doesn't add difficulty to the hard settings? But I don't believe you can judge a games difficulty on the hard mode, but instead base it on the normal setting, and WoW's normal mode content was never challenging enough to say it's far more difficult than ARR can be. At least not at this point in it's development. Keep in mind that they can always change anything about the game, and at some point raise the difficulty to meet the need of "hardcore" players. (I hate the term "hardcore" fyi Smiley: rolleyes)

I'll post this link to my WoW toon, just as proof that I played WoW. Smiley: grin
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Uogo/simple
#79 Jun 30 2013 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:


I did not compare level 20 ARR content to WOW level 60 Raids... I never even used the word RAID :) Level 60 WOW istances A.K.A TBC, are one of the hardest istances sets released in WOW Smiley: smile Louis compared them, not me, i said it was BLASPHEMOUS to do such a comparison... since none of those instances can be done w/o a healer, unlike the ARR counterparts that he did compared them too.... Also what combat mechanics do you experience the first 2 hours of ARR please do tell us ? Because you claim the misinformation in this thread is staggering... yet you are adding to it Smiley: lol


WHOA WHOA WHOA!

Let's get it straight here. I said that I got to level 60 and didn't encounter anything even resembling a challenge. I never compared the instanced dungeons in WoW (which I did NONE of except maybe one cave in the Barrens..) to the level 20 dungeons, (of which I found relatively challenging but forgiving).

The first dungeons in beta are challenging for new players, but give PLENTY of time to die over and over and still get a win. They are EXACTLY what the game needs to attract new players. The agony of defeat and the thrill of overcoming it.

We, and that is my friend and 2 other legacy players, cleared all three. In the first dungeon we had 1 death. The second, 2. The third, the tank and the mrd died on the mini boss, while I cure bombed the archer who tanked 9 slimes. Then we wiped 2 times on the final boss.

Still, we ended the final dungeon with 40 minutes to spare.

Hard? Eh. More that I am a bad Whm. (was too busy taking screenshots :D)
Screenshot

Forgiving? Absolutely.
Fun? Hell yes.


No they are not, if you died on any of the 3 starting dungeons, you are bad, no excuses, nothing in them is hard, at ALL! I did copper mine yesterday with a fresh new tank, that had not tanked since XI he died on the slime, then i died because the mage pulled the aggro of the slimes from me, but i had the aggro of the bomb, and as i tried to retake the aggro of the slimes to blow them up, the bomb went off.... The conjurer and the mage beat the boss with the tank and the dps dead... In wow, you cannot do that, you die, period.

Also is not that you are a bad WHM, your tank is way above the istance, look at his gear, that is level 23 gear..... On a lvl 17 dungeon.... Yeah! Bet it was hard Smiley: lol
#80 Jun 30 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Default
supermegazeke wrote:
IDK, WoW was pretty easy for me. I had a max level rogue during Cataclysm, and I never once felt like it was ever the most challenging thing I had ever done in a Video game.

Obviously, if you play it on the hard modes, it's going to be hard. What video game in the history of video games doesn't add difficulty to the hard settings? But I don't believe you can judge a games difficulty on the hard mode, but instead base it on the normal setting, and WoW's normal mode content was never challenging enough to say it's far more difficult than ARR can be. At least not at this point in it's development. Keep in mind that they can always change anything about the game, and at some point raise the difficulty to meet the need of "hardcore" players. (I hate the term "hardcore" fyi Smiley: rolleyes)

I'll post this link to my WoW toon, just as proof that I played WoW. Smiley: grin
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Uogo/simple


Hahahaha!! Smiley: lol Never did any raids on Vanilla, only has cleared TBC Content in 2011, never did any heroics in WOTLK. Yup you can talk about hard content in wow... The ones you never did.
#81 Jun 30 2013 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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6,899 posts
Ostia wrote:
[No they are not, if you died on any of the 3 starting dungeons, you are bad, no excuses, nothing in them is hard, at ALL! I did copper mine yesterday with a fresh new tank, that had not tanked since XI he died on the slime, then i died because the mage pulled the aggro of the slimes from me, but i had the aggro of the bomb, and as i tried to retake the aggro of the slimes to blow them up, the bomb went off.... The conjurer and the mage beat the boss with the tank and the dps dead... In wow, you cannot do that, you die, period.

Also is not that you are a bad WHM, your tank is way above the istance, look at his gear, that is level 23 gear..... On a lvl 17 dungeon.... Yeah! Bet it was hard Smiley: lol


Dying in the dungeons doesn't signify if you're a good or bad player at all. It just means you haven't figured out the mechanics yet, or that you have people who aren't meeting the DPS threshold of the encounters, or new players who don't fully understand how their jobs work. Saying it makes you a bad player is dumb as hell. For instance, the first time I had ever run Ifrit (with you) I died during the phase change to those explosions that went outside/inside/repeat. Does that make me a bad player? And before you respond with yes, keep in mind that I did it again and not only didn't die, but only the tank and I survived and beat the encounter the exact same way you did in my first run. Experience and understanding the mechanics are very important.

As for WoW... I was a pally tank and ran every single dungeon in the dungeon finder. SEVERAL times we had a healer leave and just said ***** it, and ended up beating the dungeon without one, so you're completely wrong there. MANY times we had a healer so bad that either they or the melee would die from being stupid (aggroing another group of mobs, running into the boss before me, etc) and I'd end up beating it anyways. The dungeons in WoW (you know, the almost exact equivalent to the ones in XIV) weren't any harder. In fact, 99% of them were simple tank and spank up until 60ish. At least there are actual interesting mechanics in XIV boss fights, and to me, that makes them more challenging. I could sleepwalk my way through half the dungeons in WoW, so you're wrong there. And no, I'm not talking raids, I'm not talking whatever hard content you want to counter with. I'm talking the simple dungeon finder the dungeons. They weren't hard. AT ALL.
#82 Jun 30 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
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424 posts
Ostia wrote:
supermegazeke wrote:
IDK, WoW was pretty easy for me. I had a max level rogue during Cataclysm, and I never once felt like it was ever the most challenging thing I had ever done in a Video game.

Obviously, if you play it on the hard modes, it's going to be hard. What video game in the history of video games doesn't add difficulty to the hard settings? But I don't believe you can judge a games difficulty on the hard mode, but instead base it on the normal setting, and WoW's normal mode content was never challenging enough to say it's far more difficult than ARR can be. At least not at this point in it's development. Keep in mind that they can always change anything about the game, and at some point raise the difficulty to meet the need of "hardcore" players. (I hate the term "hardcore" fyi Smiley: rolleyes)

I'll post this link to my WoW toon, just as proof that I played WoW. Smiley: grin
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Uogo/simple


Hahahaha!! Smiley: lol Never did any raids on Vanilla, only has cleared TBC Content in 2011, never did any heroics in WOTLK. Yup you can talk about hard content in wow... The ones you never did.


That's what I'm trying to get across though, is that I never played on hard modes, so it wasn't hard. I never claimed to do any of the stuff you just said I didn't do. I did play some vanilla wow as well, but I only got to like 55 or something. It was on a completely different account though, because when I re-uped later, I couldn't figure out how to get my old account active. Either way, I'm not saying that some parts of it weren't difficult, I'm just stating that what was in the normal difficulty was not difficult, as that is the only content I ever had any desire to play. I'm not a "hardcore" player, I play for enjoyment and experience, not bragging rights. I'm pretty confident at some point SE will implement some challenging content to appease those of you who are masochists. For me though, you probably won't ever catch me banging my head against the wall for that stuff.

Take it easy on me Ostia, I'm sensitive! Smiley: grin

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 10:42pm by supermegazeke
#83 Jun 30 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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728 posts
Raiding in WoW was kind of hard. And by hard I mean getting all 10 people in your group to move when they need to. The hardest bosses in that game were the players themselves. My Guild spent over a month on Sindragosa in WotLK because people could just not get the hang of moving out of AoEs and staying away from other people when they were about to get ice blocked. It got very frustrating after a while of always doing things correctly until you get so tired of it you mess up. I suppose that it didn't help that we were always bringing in new people each week either..

After Cata hit however, I was able to get the highest Gearscore on my server for Holy Paladin by doing everything solo... at least until Raids opened up that is.. After this I quickly lost interest again and haven't played since. They made the instances much harder, which in itself wasn't a bad thing, but other people had such a hard time with it. It became such a pain to even do Heroics there for a while... and then they nerfed everything to the ground again >.>.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 10:55pm by DamienSScott
#84 Jun 30 2013 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
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1,102 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.




Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?


lol i defend the game and get subbed.. now Im 100% certain someones just going to ALL my posts not even reading them and just on a karma bomb spree



IMO, you get rated down because your tone is always condescending and you look like an ***.
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#85 Jun 30 2013 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[No they are not, if you died on any of the 3 starting dungeons, you are bad, no excuses, nothing in them is hard, at ALL! I did copper mine yesterday with a fresh new tank, that had not tanked since XI he died on the slime, then i died because the mage pulled the aggro of the slimes from me, but i had the aggro of the bomb, and as i tried to retake the aggro of the slimes to blow them up, the bomb went off.... The conjurer and the mage beat the boss with the tank and the dps dead... In wow, you cannot do that, you die, period.

Also is not that you are a bad WHM, your tank is way above the istance, look at his gear, that is level 23 gear..... On a lvl 17 dungeon.... Yeah! Bet it was hard Smiley: lol


Dying in the dungeons doesn't signify if you're a good or bad player at all. It just means you haven't figured out the mechanics yet, or that you have people who aren't meeting the DPS threshold of the encounters, or new players who don't fully understand how their jobs work. Saying it makes you a bad player is dumb as hell. For instance, the first time I had ever run Ifrit (with you) I died during the phase change to those explosions that went outside/inside/repeat. Does that make me a bad player? And before you respond with yes, keep in mind that I did it again and not only didn't die, but only the tank and I survived and beat the encounter the exact same way you did in my first run. Experience and understanding the mechanics are very important.

As for WoW... I was a pally tank and ran every single dungeon in the dungeon finder. SEVERAL times we had a healer leave and just said ***** it, and ended up beating the dungeon without one, so you're completely wrong there. MANY times we had a healer so bad that either they or the melee would die from being stupid (aggroing another group of mobs, running into the boss before me, etc) and I'd end up beating it anyways. The dungeons in WoW (you know, the almost exact equivalent to the ones in XIV) weren't any harder. In fact, 99% of them were simple tank and spank up until 60ish. At least there are actual interesting mechanics in XIV boss fights, and to me, that makes them more challenging. I could sleepwalk my way through half the dungeons in WoW, so you're wrong there. And no, I'm not talking raids, I'm not talking whatever hard content you want to counter with. I'm talking the simple dungeon finder the dungeons. They weren't hard. AT ALL.


You died... So you where bad, then you learned... You where good, simple as That! Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer, that is just the way it is, nor can you do that cave with the pirates in stormwind etc etc, here is the difference, early 1-25 dungeons in wow, are far harder than 1-25 dungeons in XIV, that is a fact, and when you encounter a boss that requires adds to be tanked and killed, if you do not, you DIE! In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol
#86 Jun 30 2013 at 10:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,330 posts
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack
#87 Jun 30 2013 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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1,313 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:



Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?


Yes it did actually. People just need to stop comparing these two games. Content, combat, and size wise, WoW has always been more complete; yes even in beta. I've accepted that ARR will never be as big or complex as World of Warcraft. WoW got better and better each year until Cataclysm, where it sort of leveled out in my opinion (no better or worse), it is a huge game with myriads of things to do in it. No other MMO world has come close to the vastness of Azeroth and it's surrounding areas. If I could compare it to another game on the market, it would be Rift. In it's beta stages it was much closer to ARR in size and the amount of content available, although ARR is still a bit smaller and less complete than Rift was at release since Rift already had a complete PvP and endgame system. It was ready to go. We don't know exactly what we'll be getting when ARR releases.

That being said, ARR is it's own game and has a lot of potential. By the first expansion, it should be a very enjoyable game with hopefully as much additions as we received in Rise of the Zilart for FFXI.

*I should note that I played Rift for about 2 months before going back to WoW because, for me, it didn't quite do it. The world and lore didn't interest me enough to validate putting anymore time in to it, when I could simply play WoW. The fact that ARR is a Final Fantasy and has a lot of things that tug on my heart strings may be what holds me over until the game expands a bit and keeps me away from Warcraft. I think this is what most players are looking for, not FFXI-2.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 1:07am by Transmigration
#88 Jul 01 2013 at 2:55 AM Rating: Default
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.
#89 Jul 01 2013 at 3:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,330 posts
Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.


The room seals when you start attacking the adds, so sorry "brah," fight clearly starts with the adds, and not because Ostia says the boss hasn't popped yet.

Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.

Sooooo!!!

The ones that I mentioned that weren't accurate?

Weren't. Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:05am by Ravashack
#90 Jul 01 2013 at 3:17 AM Rating: Default
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.


The room seals when you start attacking the adds, so sorry "brah," fight clearly starts with the adds, and not because Ostia says the boss hasn't popped yet.

Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.

Sooooo!!!

The ones that I mentioned that weren't accurate?

Weren't. Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:05am by Ravashack



Actually if you want to be really really accurate, the room seals and THEN adds show up, they are not tied to the BOSS Fight in any shape or form Smiley: lol

You had a bad group.... I had one where the tank died and one dps died and it was a mage and a CNJ versus the blob... Still beat it... And trust me the mage was way to busy to kill sprigans..

SOOOO!!! Bad group is bad ?
#91 Jul 01 2013 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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424 posts
Ravashack wrote:
Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.


Had that happen as well. It had always gone so smoothly, to the point where I didn't even know what was happening, and why the bombs kept dieing. Had to try and kill them myself because the DPS were standing in the corner scared to get near anything blob related. /sigh

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:19am by supermegazeke
#92 Jul 01 2013 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
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1,330 posts
Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.


The room seals when you start attacking the adds, so sorry "brah," fight clearly starts with the adds, and not because Ostia says the boss hasn't popped yet.

Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.

Sooooo!!!

The ones that I mentioned that weren't accurate?

Weren't. Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:05am by Ravashack



Actually if you want to be really really accurate, the room seals and THEN adds show up, they are not tied to the BOSS Fight in any shape or form Smiley: lol

You had a bad group.... I had one where the tank died and one dps died and it was a mage and a CNJ versus the blob... Still beat it... And trust me the mage was way to busy to kill sprigans..

SOOOO!!! Bad group is bad ?


That's very true about the sealing going first! But...room sealing up STILL signifies boss fight. Otherwise you could zerg the adds, just like the rest of the dungeon.

And the bad group isn't the point. The bad group is the vehicle for the point. The point is that the Spriggans had no problems dousing the bombs. So 1 or 2 still blow up if you ignore adds? Nope, go bug report it if it did.

SOOOO!!! Can't always ignore adds.
#93 Jul 01 2013 at 4:04 AM Rating: Default
You can, the first bomb that shows up in that fight, has no sparigan showing up... only from the second foward, you have sparigans showing up, and they do not always kill the bomb before the bomb explodes Smiley: lol Is not a bug, is working as intended.
#94 Jul 01 2013 at 4:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,330 posts
Ostia wrote:
You can, the first bomb that shows up in that fight, has no sparigan showing up... only from the second foward, you have sparigans showing up, and they do not always kill the bomb before the bomb explodes Smiley: lol Is not a bug, is working as intended.


They might not have always killed the bomb for you, but they definitely did not have problems killing the bomb off for me. The fact that they don't pop on the first bomb doesn't even have any relevance -- the fact that the spriggans shut down the bomb mechanic consistently for at least some people (since, obviously, all groups you've been in for it never had that working correctly) is. And that's not a tongue-in-cheek comment either -- I know some mechanics aren't working consistently, like the flame circle that the last boss of Halatali is supposed to do but doesn't always do.
#95 Jul 01 2013 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,899 posts
Ostia wrote:
You died... So you where bad, then you learned... You where good, simple as That! Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer, that is just the way it is, nor can you do that cave with the pirates in stormwind etc etc, here is the difference, early 1-25 dungeons in wow, are far harder than 1-25 dungeons in XIV, that is a fact, and when you encounter a boss that requires adds to be tanked and killed, if you do not, you DIE! In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol


Lmao, so by your logic, I magically "became good" after watching the fight once? Apparently, because I had never seen the mechanics before, that means I'm a bad player. Yep, that's foolproof logic if you ask me. Smiley: rolleyes

And also, I did EVERY WoW dungeon 10-25, and maybe died once or twice because of bad players or someone DCing. They aren't hard. Are the early dungeons in XIV hard? Not exactly, but they still require you to know the mechanics. For instance, last boss of Sarastasha, if you don't understand you have to close the traps, you get swarmed by adds and die before you can zerg the boss down. Last boss in Tam Tara, you have to kill the adds for the boss to even become vulnerable. First boss in Copperbell, you DO have to kill the adds (at least some of them) or you will get owned by the boss and adds. If you don't kill any adds, you're group will wipe. If you're claiming you won't, you are flat out lying.

And I had the exact same experience as Rava for the second boss. You get one free bomb, after that you have to kill the Spriggan or it will kill the bomb before detonation. Either you got really lucky, or you're not being honest to try and prove your point.

Honestly, I think you're just trying to prove how "leet" you are by saying you've never died. Maybe you haven't, maybe you've had ideal groups that knew what they were doing and everyone worked fluidly. Not every group is like that. Most people WILL die at some point in those 3 dungeons, especially Copperbell, and especially if they haven't done the fights before. That doesn't make them bad, it makes them inexperienced, and there is a huge difference. Stop being such an elitist... wait, I can't even really say that since you apparently thought low level dungeons in WoW were more difficult. Not in my experience.
#96 Jul 01 2013 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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3,599 posts
Ostia wrote:

Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer,


You keep saying this and I keep calling you on bullsh*t, and you keep ignoring it.

This is more Ostia napkin math. Making sh*t up doesn't make it a fact. You cannot do the dungeons without a healer. That's a fact. What party makeup could you possibly conceive that would eliminate a healer? Is this some all tank party where they all set cure and cure themselves?

And if you ignore the adds you die. It's that simple. Wailing Caverns was the first and only dungeon I did in WoW and it was simple. It actually convinced me that WoW was an easy game for solo players, coming from FFXI.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 8:29am by Louiscool
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#97 Jul 01 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
You died... So you where bad, then you learned... You where good, simple as That! Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer, that is just the way it is, nor can you do that cave with the pirates in stormwind etc etc, here is the difference, early 1-25 dungeons in wow, are far harder than 1-25 dungeons in XIV, that is a fact, and when you encounter a boss that requires adds to be tanked and killed, if you do not, you DIE! In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol


Lmao, so by your logic, I magically "became good" after watching the fight once? Apparently, because I had never seen the mechanics before, that means I'm a bad player. Yep, that's foolproof logic if you ask me. Smiley: rolleyes

And also, I did EVERY WoW dungeon 10-25, and maybe died once or twice because of bad players or someone DCing. They aren't hard. Are the early dungeons in XIV hard? Not exactly, but they still require you to know the mechanics. For instance, last boss of Sarastasha, if you don't understand you have to close the traps, you get swarmed by adds and die before you can zerg the boss down. Last boss in Tam Tara, you have to kill the adds for the boss to even become vulnerable. First boss in Copperbell, you DO have to kill the adds (at least some of them) or you will get owned by the boss and adds. If you don't kill any adds, you're group will wipe. If you're claiming you won't, you are flat out lying.

And I had the exact same experience as Rava for the second boss. You get one free bomb, after that you have to kill the Spriggan or it will kill the bomb before detonation. Either you got really lucky, or you're not being honest to try and prove your point.

Honestly, I think you're just trying to prove how "leet" you are by saying you've never died. Maybe you haven't, maybe you've had ideal groups that knew what they were doing and everyone worked fluidly. Not every group is like that. Most people WILL die at some point in those 3 dungeons, especially Copperbell, and especially if they haven't done the fights before. That doesn't make them bad, it makes them inexperienced, and there is a huge difference. Stop being such an elitist... wait, I can't even really say that since you apparently thought low level dungeons in WoW were more difficult. Not in my experience.


If you did not know that in 2013 if you see something shinning with fire under you, that you need to move.. Then yes you are bad... This is not 1998 when EQ came out, this is 2013 when is common to "MOVE OUT OF THE FIRE!" and we did TOLD YOU before the fight, move away from the fire when you see it on the floor, hit the add when he spawns and GG. Obviously you where not able to do a simple task... That's Ok! You learned as you said and you then did it and did not Die ? Great! See you learned, you became Good.

I actually died once but not of my own doing... Which was kind of funny.. yet sad, because they should have known better... But! Such is the price of pugging dungeons at Times.

Either way Louis! Bartel! We can end this argument next week, let's form a party, and do all those 3 basic dungeons w/o a healer :) Then we can get a healer and a tank and ignore the adds (Except in TTD last boss for obvious reasons) and then we can all laugh at how silly it all was.... Come on guys put your money where that mouth is Smiley: laugh So next week ? We prove who's right ok ?
#98 Jul 01 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:

Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer,


You keep saying this and I keep calling you on bullsh*t, and you keep ignoring it.

This is more Ostia napkin math. Making sh*t up doesn't make it a fact. You cannot do the dungeons without a healer. That's a fact. What party makeup could you possibly conceive that would eliminate a healer? Is this some all tank party where they all set cure and cure themselves?

And if you ignore the adds you die. It's that simple. Wailing Caverns was the first and only dungeon I did in WoW and it was simple. It actually convinced me that WoW was an easy game for solo players, coming from FFXI.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 8:29am by Louiscool


If you actually read the official forums, many people have stated that they have cleared those dungeons and even higher ones WITH NO HEALER :) So this is not just me saying it, also you almost had me until you said coming from XI the easiest game evah!
#99 Jul 01 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Default
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol
#100 Jul 01 2013 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,899 posts
Ostia wrote:
If you did not know that in 2013 if you see something shinning with fire under you, that you need to move.. Then yes you are bad... This is not 1998 when EQ came out, this is 2013 when is common to "MOVE OUT OF THE FIRE!" and we did TOLD YOU before the fight, move away from the fire when you see it on the floor, hit the add when he spawns and GG. Obviously you where not able to do a simple task... That's Ok! You learned as you said and you then did it and did not Die ? Great! See you learned, you became Good.


Again, I had never seen the fight. I had no idea WHEN the phase would shift, and I happened to be caught in a bad spot when the eruptions started. That has absolutely nothing to do with being a bad player, it has to do with not having seen the mechanic in the fight and knowing when/where I was supposed to be. I was about a half step from being outside the flame that attempt. I didn't magically become good because I figured out the mechanic. Your logic is just plain wrong and incredibly elitist.

Ostia wrote:
Either way Louis! Bartel! We can end this argument next week, let's form a party, and do all those 3 basic dungeons w/o a healer :) Then we can get a healer and a tank and ignore the adds (Except in TTD last boss for obvious reasons) and then we can all laugh at how silly it all was.... Come on guys put your money where that mouth is Smiley: laugh So next week ? We prove who's right ok ?


Why? Why would I want to waste hours of my time doing this to try and prove a point? Do you want to go back to WoW so I can show you the dungeons I ran without a healer, or how easy they ALL are? Well guess what, I don't. I already ran Sarastasha without a healer. It was a massive pain in the butt. It took us almost the full hour and a half, a bunch of wipes, kiting, etc just to beat it. That was the FIRST dungeon. Why would I want to spend hours trying to prove your point when I already know it's not something that is easy or very enjoyable?

You make it sound like running these without a healer is so easy. It's not. It's a massive pain, and we WOULD wipe many times (especially in Copperbell). Maybe we could do it... but I doubt it. I think we'd get aggravated way before we finished them all and just say f*ck it. So no, I won't be doing that. It doesn't mean you're right, it means that the idea is a waste of time and pointless.


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#101 Jul 01 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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4,175 posts
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


In other words, you can clear content because everyone has the ability to heal themselves?

Great. I was so sick of people saying 'moar liek WoW'. Now at least they'll say 'moar leik GW2' for a while Smiley: sly
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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