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Damn you RMTFollow

#27 Jun 24 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
273 posts
Adzieboy wrote:
They'd never sell it though - they're against the whole pay to win dynamic of the modern age.

Thank God.
#28 Jun 24 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
341 posts
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
Demonadrastos wrote:
Not too complex, just even a small amount if possible. I really enjoyed the fishing in FFXI, especially the left/right fighting style when reeling in that fish or monster(Angel Skin anyone?). However, the Fishing in FFXI, though the randomness of the fight depending on the lvl of the bite, enjoyable, not really all that complex. Still one of my favorite pass times. Most MMO's take a very simplistic route when they have fishing, and becomes very boring. Hopefully this isn't the case.

EDIT:;:; I actually have my eye on the F2P MMO(ish) Fishing Hero. Sadly I was too late to join/check out the beta.

FFXI is one of the most heavily fish-botted games I've seen, mainly because it is a simple mini-game.

And to stop a bot, it would need visual cues that are not something a bot would understand. So, basically Captas of some sense. It would have to display a word scramble or an image that you'd need to respond to. That's it. That's the only, 100% sure way to stop a bot... for now. I'm sure there will be a way to defeat those methods soon enough.

desmar wrote:
Breath of Fire III & IV had the most amazing fishing mini-games. I would love to see that implemented into a game. You actually had to work for and play your catch. Which would be almost impossible to bot.

So, it typed random phrases on the screen that you had to input? No? Oh it's this:

Alright, let me break down how a bot would work in this case.

All the mobs would have to have their positions relayed to the client, so those positions would then be available as data for the bot, it would then move the lure to the mob. Once on the line, all the fishing data would, again, be client-side, so then it's just a matter of getting the correct responses to the situation.

It would actually be easier to bot that than you think.

Veagan wrote:
I like the idea of fishing for personal crafting. Make catches untradable and unsellable and can only be used by you.

Just... no.

While it might be impossible to beat a bot, you can make it's life much more difficult. What you don't see, is that each instance has a finite amount of fish. You also don't know which type of fish is in the water. Additionally, there is no one-catch-all type of bait, and lastly some fish need a complicated reeling rhythm to catch. So you'd have to program your bot to catch a specific type of fish, for which there might only be 1 or 2 in the "instance". Then after catching those 1 or 2. He'd need to exit the fishing sequence, activate the fisher triangulate, move to the next randomly generated fishing spot and do the same thing.

Yes this is all possible with a sophisticated bot, but by adding extra steps and *gasp* gameplay, you make it more difficult. You then make it so the basic low-level fish have a 1 gil pricetag, or make it so they don't have a pricetag rather, but are turned in via quests in bulk.

But you see what ends up happening when you nail the RMTs trying to gain money "legitimately", is they'll just start compromising accounts, vendoring all the gear on said account and selling that gil to an unsuspecting buyer. Which is another reason to get an authenticator, but still not a fool-proof method.
WoW Blackhand-US-Date of Retirement: 9/21/2010... /Sigh
Devari - 90 Rogue 85 DK Druid/Mage/Warrior 70+

FFXI - Shiva "Retired.... Or not? One more try, honest."
Desmar - 65 Sam 36 Mnk 18 Thf 12 War

FFXIV - Devari Garamond - Sargatanas 50 Paladin / Culinarian / Weaver / Armorer
Beta - Devaria Ariadne - Ultros - Pugilist
#29 Jun 24 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
1,339 posts
The problem that a lot of people are forgetting is that 1.0 was built from the ground up to be as anti-RMT as possible, and look what that got us: a pile of **** masquerading as a game. Did it stop RMT?


Yoshi-P's gone the intelligent route and had his team design it so that it's easy for players to get in, get what they want, get out, and go on with their gaming life. That doesn't eliminate RMT but it does help to lower the demand for them as players can easily get what they need themselves. FFXI's failed (and continues to fail) because there are very, very few nodes in a zone that can be up, and if there are other people going after them you're pretty much looking to be irritated as **** -- it's why RMT had such a foothold in the game to begin with. It was expensive to mine/harvest/log ("Your X broke, your X broke, your X broke, you find nothing, your X broke, etc.), the payout was abysmal in terms of time spent, and it was so much based in pure luck that most people gave up.

Blizzard realized this and they adapted their currency, crafting ingredient composition, and other such things into such a way as that it drastically lowered the amounts of RMT you had to deal with. Sure, there's a "lot" of bots now on servers for mining/harvesting points but there are so many nodes that it makes it a non-issue for the most part.

Yoshi-P took it a step further and just made each spawn point individual to the person. You aren't fighting over nodes because if someone's "botting" it honestly doesn't affect your ability to harvest in any such way. Plus, as it's a job you're getting experience (which is the same as "skilling up" a craft from other MMOs), and that experience directly translates into better chances of getting items out of nodes as your success rate increases as you level up and there are less "YOU GOT NUTHUN" messages.

Plus, I'm also a little curious......why are people up in arms about fishing being a "casual" job/craft? What do you think Mining and Harvesting are? You're on your own, you get a stealth ability to avoid aggro, and you aren't competing against anyone....ever. That's the very definition of casual to me.

From what I've read on the live letter he's basically taking out the annoying minigame/depth type system and it looks like it'll be going the way of Mining/Harvesting in terms of reeling in. All he's stated is it should be relaxing, not annoying, and focus more on personal achievements (which is what fishing has *ALWAYS* been in a lot of MMOs including FFXI). Type of rod, bait, day, and etc. were specifically mentioned to still affect your outcome so it's got as much depth as FFXI's at least.... what's the big deal again?

This seems like just another "OH NO!" topic that has no basis in reality.
#30 Jun 24 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
100 posts
electromagnet83 wrote:
Square should just sell gil too. It's like the drug debate...if you legalize it you can control it, tax it, make money on it..and eliminate the bad things folks are doing in order to obtain it.

CCP actually uses that particular model in a roundabout way, and it does reduce the problem a bit in Eve.

CCP Sells prepaid game time online that can be converted to a physical item ( PLEX) and sold on the in-game market for ISK.

Now the first reason this isn't entirely unbalancing, the prices right now mean for $15 US, you can convert it to approximately Half a billion in ISK Yes you can go to a seller site, but it's not uncommon to see some noob shouting in a major hub that they just were scammed by a website. I don't buy game time to sell, but I haven't had to pay for Eve online in at least 6 years, save for the one month I forgot to buy another PLEX and had to pay to reactivate my account.

CCP also does some awesome work in backtracking people trying to work the system in ways exceeding the constraints of the game... Lie, murder, steal, do it with aplomb, just don't alter the client, or work a broken mechanic thinking you'll win out. Once CCP finds out they love employing "scorched earth" tactics. They play their own game, and it shows.

The second reason this system works, is item impermanence. Lose your ship, It's gone, it's contents are either destroyed or looted by your attacker, Stick around in your escape pod, Get blasted, Lose possibly a few billion in implants ( if you aren't smart enough to use cheap ones in combat situations)

I don't think we're ready for Permaloss in a "cute" game... You don't want Lalafell chocobo gangs a-la-The Road Warrior. Riding the backs of gladiators, Demanding that you tell us who runs Bartertown...

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 2:16pm by OtosanOokami
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