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Another, more in-depth response from Yoshi-P regarding F2P

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Another, more in-depth response from Yoshi-P regarding F2PFollow

#27 Jun 19 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good

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Hatamaz wrote:

I hate that it's called "Free to Play". When sometimes so much of a game is put behind a pay wall.

When I see a game going to F2P, I automatically think I don't want to play it and that the game is a failure and not worth my time.

Not all Free To Play is bad or ends up costing you more. You can level all the way to level 60 cap on two characters in TERA without paying a single cent. The only things I saw omitted was an atlas feature, 5 extra character slots, some extra bank space, and a mount(Almost excluded the mount because you can earn one in game at lvl 11.)

The money doesn't all go back into development on the mmo it was earned through in my opinion, Otherwise WoW with it's 8-12 million strong fluctuating playerbase would have had expansions at three to four times the rate of FFXI, which it did not.

I am confident that ARR will not flop as 1.0 did for the simple fact that it is very playable, accesible, and modern. However, I am not sure what their target base of subscribers is? I do know that investors or not, every company has a bottom line of profitability they must meet.
If the worst case happened and the game costed more money to keep open than make profit over a good duration. Any company will close down or change their model.

I'm rooting for ARR though because I want to play an FF mmo. They should at the least look into short duration free trials over PSN to give players a chance to see the world without a cost entry via PSN download. And no, beta doesn't count because it is not the finalized game.

#28 Jun 19 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent

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Wint wrote:

Nobody rated him down...

Should I have? He seems like a decent enough guy. I mean I do loves me my downthurst, but I got to have SOME reasoning.

That reminds me, I need to make a picture for Upthrust...

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 2:48pm by Hyrist

#29 Jun 19 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent

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I know it's not an mmo, but League of Legends does a great job of F2P. I never thought I'd spend a dime but found myself wanting to buy things just to support them. It also helps that Teemo's Skins are so god-damn cute.

#30 Jun 19 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good

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sandpark wrote:

I'm rooting for ARR though because I want to play an FF mmo. They should at the least look into short duration free trials over PSN to give players a chance to see the world without a cost entry via PSN download. And no, beta doesn't count because it is not the finalized game.

Yoshi has already stated that somewhere down the line there will be a free trial. I don't think it's necessary at launch though. While open beta might not be the finalized game, there won't be sweeping changes between it and release, so it's an excellent opportunity for those unsure if they want to buy the game to try it out for free. I'd think maybe 6 months to a year after launch would be a good time to institute a free trial.

#31 Jun 19 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent

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Teravibe wrote:

Finally another person to rant about eve besides me....
.

It does take a special kind of Crazy to thrive there.

Should also note the "Pay with game currency" model also depends primarily on players buying that game time for cash outside of the game, then selling it for ISK on the open market.

It also helps that Eve is based on " Don't undock with it if you aren't willing to lose it forever" attitude, as in any different game with item permanence, allowing players this sort of model would lead to extreme unbalance in very short order.

$30 buck or less expansions I don't mind in a subscription model, but the downside of a Gamer wife is having twice the cost to maintain parity.

#32 Jun 19 2013 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent

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Louiscool wrote:

I know it's not an mmo, but League of Legends does a great job of F2P. I never thought I'd spend a dime but found myself wanting to buy things just to support them. It also helps that Teemo's Skins are so god-damn cute.

Panda Teemo ftw!

When swtor went ftp I was kind of excited because it would allow me to play through some of the story lines I hadn't yet, but stopped paying for because I was bored of the game in general. When I saw all the crazy restrictions they added, I uninstalled and never thought about it twice.

Aion on the other hand, has a decent ftp model. The game isn't really limited to you, and the money is (entirely?) on vanity items, costumes, pets, mounts, stuff like that. I think you can buy items, but not anything that you couldn't reasonably get in the game, so no real pay-to-win situation. I haven't logged in in a bit, but I keep it installed and check it out every now and then.

#33 Jun 19 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent

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OtosanOokami wrote:

Teravibe wrote:

Finally another person to rant about eve besides me....
.

It does take a special kind of Crazy to thrive there.

Should also note the "Pay with game currency" model also depends primarily on players buying that game time for cash outside of the game, then selling it for ISK on the open market.

It also helps that Eve is based on " Don't undock with it if you aren't willing to lose it forever" attitude, as in any different game with item permanence, allowing players this sort of model would lead to extreme unbalance in very short order.

$30 buck or less expansions I don't mind in a subscription model, but the downside of a Gamer wife is having twice the cost to maintain parity.

I would gladly double my cost if my significant other would play with me. I'm just happy enough that she doesn't complain all too often if I go on a gaming binge.

Still though, she wasn't around for when I played FFXI. I keep joking with her, trying to get her interested in the game to play with me. Telling her that if she doesn't, then she's going to miss me when I'm gone after Aug. 27th.

#34 Jun 19 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default

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Seems like business 101 to me. I bet Yoshi is annoyed as fuggg to have to keep doing these kinds of interviews. I would be.

#35 Jun 19 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent

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I'd be more annoyed by the interviews asking the most basic questions. Like, it's a re-release, you're a journalist, at least get a basic understanding of what the game is about before you start asking questions. You have the Producer/Director in front of you, not a random community manager.

#36 Jun 19 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good

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BartelX wrote:

sandpark wrote:

I'm rooting for ARR though because I want to play an FF mmo. They should at the least look into short duration free trials over PSN to give players a chance to see the world without a cost entry via PSN download. And no, beta doesn't count because it is not the finalized game.

Yoshi has already stated that somewhere down the line there will be a free trial. I don't think it's necessary at launch though. While open beta might not be the finalized game, there won't be sweeping changes between it and release, so it's an excellent opportunity for those unsure if they want to buy the game to try it out for free. I'd think maybe 6 months to a year after launch would be a good time to institute a free trial.

The free trial is basically getting the first month of play for free for those brand new subscribers. It'll be the same way it was handled in 1.0. I purchased the game and for everyone who bought it got the first month for free and after that is when they planned on beginning monthly charges. I forget how they said they would handle the old 1.0 accounts though. I seem to remember Yoshi saying that 1.0 accounts would also get 1 month for free to try the game out, but I can't say this with 100% certainty though.

#37 Jun 19 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good

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swisa wrote:

BartelX wrote:

sandpark wrote:

I'm rooting for ARR though because I want to play an FF mmo. They should at the least look into short duration free trials over PSN to give players a chance to see the world without a cost entry via PSN download. And no, beta doesn't count because it is not the finalized game.

Yoshi has already stated that somewhere down the line there will be a free trial. I don't think it's necessary at launch though. While open beta might not be the finalized game, there won't be sweeping changes between it and release, so it's an excellent opportunity for those unsure if they want to buy the game to try it out for free. I'd think maybe 6 months to a year after launch would be a good time to institute a free trial.

The free trial is basically getting the first month of play for free for those brand new subscribers. It'll be the same way it was handled in 1.0. I purchased the game and for everyone who bought it got the first month for free and after that is when they planned on beginning monthly charges. I forget how they said they would handle the old 1.0 accounts though. I seem to remember Yoshi saying that 1.0 accounts would also get 1 month for free to try the game out, but I can't say this with 100% certainty though.

I'm pretty sure what sandpark and (definitely) myself mean are a free trial for players who don't buy the game. Like how WoW offered a 7 day free trial for quite a while without having to purchase the game. I don't think it's necessary right at launch because of the Open beta, which is basically the retail version with a little less content, but down the line I think it makes sense to have one for potential new players.

#38 Jun 19 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default

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I am glad he understands the difference, now go fix the combat system, or you will be ending up in a F2P MMO Mr. Yoshi

#39 Jun 19 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent

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Ostia wrote:

I am glad he understands the difference, now go fix the combat system, or you will be ending up in a F2P MMO Mr. Yoshi

This isn't directed directly at you, but just because one person doesn't care for battle doesn't mean the game is going to fail. It simply means that person won't play the game. There are an equal number out there who enjoy it, such as myself, who will play it in its current state.

Generally, we need to stop this "I don't like it so that means it will be a failure" mentality. It's not realistic.

#40 Jun 19 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good

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A combat system on it's own isn't enough to force a game into F2P. It is the main reason for someone who isn't looking specifically for an FF mmo. With good combat people overlook alot of things. Also Ostia knows this, I think they just indulge in being the opposite view of debates. I tease my younger cousins in the same way.

Ostia likes or wants to like the game too or they wouldn't have stuck around this long.

#41 Jun 19 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent

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Nice words!!

#42 REDACTED, Posted: Jun 19 2013 at 2:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A combat system on it's own can force a game into F2P :) Swotor say's Hi! Tera say's Hi! Smiley: lol

#43 Jun 19 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good

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Ostia wrote:

sandpark wrote:

A combat system on it's own isn't enough to force a game into F2P. It is the main reason for someone who isn't looking specifically for an FF mmo. With good combat people overlook alot of things. Also Ostia knows this, I think they just indulge in being the opposite view of debates. I tease my younger cousins in the same way.

Ostia likes or wants to like the game too or they wouldn't have stuck around this long.

A combat system on it's own can force a game into F2P :) Swotor say's Hi! Tera say's Hi! Smiley: lol

And yes i do like the game, but that does not mean i will turn a blind eye to something that is obviously a problem, unlike some people around here Smiley: sly

The combat system had very little to do with swtor going F2P. The fact that there was almost no endgame PvE, classes were ridiculously unbalanced in PvP (no, not because of combat, because Bioware continually broke and overbuffed class abilities and skill trees), and the game was riddled with bugs were the main reasons. Tera I can't comment on, never played it much.

#44 Jun 19 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good

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What BartelX said. Borrowing a small part of a relevant post of mine from the beta forums:

Quote:

Now, on the other hand - Games like SWTOR (which I played, and apparently paid a subscription for about 4 months), did not deserve their money. Allow me to elaborate:
Leveling / personal quest were fine. Quality really.
End-game did exist, in theory, but...
...there were FAR too many game-breaking bugs. Also, numerous balance issues. The game had 3 healing classes and the 1st one was as good as the other 2 combined.
EA/Bioware had to recuperate development costs, so they left the game to die, from the very first months. Bug reports were not addressed for ridiculous amounts of time. A typo (Yes, a typo) made in a raid boss HP count meant that "Hard" was easier than "Normal" for about 6 weeks. And they wouldn't fix the bloody typo.
The god-damn Hero Engine they used had serious issues rendering >10-20 people at the same time. The game had world PVP. Guess how well that went when it was running with 3 FPS (not a joke, literally 3 FPS).

Yes, when I saw the developers talking in an event EA launched in March 2012, I was disgusted by their responses. They seemed to stem from a know-it-all attitude which blatantly disregarded feedback AT ALL.

Sure, these douches did not deserve a subscription fee, ever, once someone went past leveling and experiencing the admittedly well-crafted story.

Does this mean that no game deserves a subscription fee? Hardly so. However, it's hard to justify such a fee if the game is buggy, unfinished, uninspiring on day 1.
That's why I applaud Yoshi-P and team's effort, because they have the actual chance to dazzle enough people to be happy.

Please, do not refer to SWTOR as an example. Myself and a guild of rather "burn-out" friends played it from launch, and it was a mess, for all the reasons stated above.

This game sucked so much at project management (Or, I don't know, somebody evil enough up the food chain overrode all good decisions? No clue!) that when it did become F2P it created the worst "F2P" monstrosity I had ever seen.

If they threw a few more limitations in there, in the end the player would be confined to level 1, the starting area, and 10' of playtime every time he/she logged in!

It's really - really bad, and I don't want to elaborate further (wasted enough of my days writing thoughtful and constructive posts on their bloody forums, back then!)

#45 Jun 19 2013 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good

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Icing in the cake? Now that SWTOR is free to play, I was able to track down one of the healer's threads from 2012.

The guys providing TONS (I mean it, read the initial post and scroll to see some responses) of feedback for the healer community were Bobudo and RuQu (bless them, whatever they may be playing today).

Yeah, they responded to exactly 0 of the requests. If one response ever came out of 100 open issues, it was to the tune of "Carry on, peons".

Disgusting. A damn disgrace. I could easily be playing that game til today, P2P and all.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283200

#46 Jun 19 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good

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Sovjohn wrote:

Disgusting. A damn disgrace. I could easily be playing that game til today, P2P and all.

Same here. Had they actually addressed the horrific lag on the starfleet, or anywhere there were more than 20-30 people gathered, and actually fixed some of the myriad of bugs that they seemed to cause with every new patch, and actually added meaningful endgame content other than rehashing the same 4 operations (but oh wait, they added a nightmare mode to it now, it's totally new content!), and learned how to actually balance a class instead of creating a new flavor of the month every time they tried, I'd still be playing.

The story was fantastic. The leveling experience was spot on. The PvP (aside from unbalanced classes) was quite enjoyable. But then again, I'm completely hooked on FFXIV: ARR now, so maybe I should be glad that they didn't fix all that stuff. I certainly don't have the time to invest in 2 mmo's.

#47 Jun 19 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default

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You guys make my Day! Smiley: lol

Swotor had far more end game than this game will have..... So that's one X

The combat system was broken in Swotor, and class balancing and pvp revolve around what ? Crafting ? Gathering ? Oh! Combat.... Hmmm! It sort of makes Sense.... Smiley: lol

Also remember how many of you said "Oh wait we don't even got limit breaks yet" Well we do now... They are a bad gimmick that add no depth to a combat system already is the most shallow one i have seen in the past 6-8 years.... Oh and classes are not balanced either :) My lancer would destroy my pug in any sort of dps fight.

#48 Jun 19 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default

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I agree. I'm happy it failed, though, because I'll be able to play ARR uninterrupted =)

But I can't resist - That major douchebag, Georg Zeller, who was in charge of "class balance" among others (and was a disgusting troll with no real knowledge of his role), I found out some mins ago that he moved to the other end of the world, Singapore, and left Bioware about a year ago.

I wish his sons and daughters grow up, read about SWTOR somewhere, and spit him in the face. That'll teach the smug ******* some manners! Smiley: mad

#49 Jun 19 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good

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Everytime EA gets brought up I get a little angry. For whatever reason, I feel like it's their fault that Bioware isn't as good as they used to be.

Damn them for the crap that was Mass Effect 3's ending!!! And don't mention extended cut... I still chose to shoot the little star kid in the face and got surprised by the middle finger in my face that was the "Refuse" ending.

#50 Jun 19 2013 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent

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Ostia wrote:

You guys make my Day! Smiley: lol

Swotor had far more end game than this game will have..... So that's one X

The combat system was broken in Swotor, and class balancing and pvp revolve around what ? Crafting ? Gathering ? Oh! Combat.... Hmmm! It sort of makes Sense.... Smiley: lol

Agree to disagree I guess. Moving on.

#51 Jun 19 2013 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent

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Ostia wrote:

My lancer would destroy my pug in any sort of dps fight.

Wait, so you're saying Dragoons will actually be wanted for parties?!

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