bought 1.0 and likely skipping ARR, square wants to hear....Follow

I honestly don't think Yoshi listened, I think he took those who agreed with where he wanted to go with the game and called it good. This is fine because in the end it's his game. He is looking as most companies do, to bring in the most money. Which is usually by making the content easy, as the masses have shown time and time again they're not fond of anything time consuming or hard. The sad part is, all the casuals he is want to play the game, will. However, after the first couple months they'll realize that it is nothing different from whatever MMO they came from and head back to that MMO. It has happened in every MMO over the last 5-6 years. They become labeled as F2P. However! Luckily! We won't have to worry about that with PS3/PS4 securing an always sub. (Which I loathe F2P games and quit any MMO that hits that status. Besides XIV because I knew XIV was going to go back to sub and was 100% F2P w/no cash shop)

All in all I agree with you, SE has done a completely amazing job, and since I have come to terms with MMO's aren't made for my genre of gamers anymore, I will enjoy everything that XIV:ARR is, even though it highly lacks. There are no better MMO's out right now and I can't see any in the future. ESO is just another glorified World of Warcraft, quester. Perhaps if it was Morrowind with better graphics and sandboxy feel, I'd be more for it.

Hey! I wasn't saying you rated them down!

How did I internet rage?

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 9:16pm by Parathyroid

So you preferred the old Black Shroud? Anything you say about the games looks from now on I can just disregard then. Copy pasta Thanalan? Ditto.

You really like to exaggerate. It was knocked down a bit. I can definitely tell by shots on the Ifrit battlefield. But I'll take knocked down graphics with a unique look than high res copy paste. It certainly wasn't knocked down to FFXI standards, though.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 6:59pm by UltKnightGrover

I think we all realize that. However, what the OP was explaining falls completely under the ToS. They have the right to cancel/suspend/change service at any time. A perfect example would be Star Wars Galaxies. They basically leveled the entire game and rebuilt it as something completely different, regardless of what the fans wanted. None of the fans got their money back because of it. They just quit and moved on, like most people would. Yes it's unfortunate when a game you really love changes into something you don't, but to cry about it to the company, demand a refund, and then claim that the company is pulling a bait and switch after playing for over a year makes you look like an entitled jerk who thinks they deserve something from a company who gave them months of free entertainment.

If there is something in violation of your rights as a human in a ToS, I don't think there's anyone here who would honestly think that would stand up in court. But something involving the actual game? Yep.

First off I am not claiming End Game will be easy. Yoshi has already stated a few times that things will be easy until end game. He wants people that aren't great at games to be able to compete with those who are great at games. This i sthe same thing WoW does. Second the MAJOR problem I see in all MMO for the last X amount of years. Why does everything have to be centered around getting to level cap and then doing the meaty part of content. It's terrible design. The game (imo) should be all about the slow but FUN and REWARDing journey. End Game should be just that. The End of the Game. Lower, Middle and End content should last months if not years.

90% of MMOs and how they run:

Get to Level cap in a week or less
Do End Game Dungeons to Get gear for the next higher tier dungeon.
Repeat the above statement over and over.
Expansion releases
Get to level cap in a week or less
Do End Game Dungeons to replace the gear you got from end game dungeons previously.
Repeat above statement over and over.
Expansio......

Get my point? That is all any MMO released in the last say 8 years is about. There is no enjoying the journey anymore. Raids aren't hard and never have been. Finding 10-20 people who can listen and follow directions is what's hard. The raiding itself is just repeatable mechanics that after the first or second time you should have them down.

Edit:Relics were semi hard to get in XIV v1. Yoshi has staed they will be much easier to aquire in XIV:ARR. Relics is the new Epic in World of Warcraft standards. Meaning everybody will have them.

Edit Edit: To set the record straight. I love ARR, I think Yoshi and team has done a wonderful job. I am not fond of the direction they have taken, but I will learn to adjust because FF MMOs have always been the better MMOs out there. I liked XI for all those years from NA release to Abyssea because it was set apart from the standards that are todays mess. From Alpha v1 to now it's been an amazing journey. I think 1.23 was on the right track, and saddend to see Yoshi deviate from where I thought he was going with it, but ARR has it's own things that it has done much better.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 10:31pm by Failsociety

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 10:37pm by Failsociety

That deals with the subscription part, but not the up front fee. The only reason I mentioned that was because they have no issue with that and they're not asking for a refund on the subscription. I'd imagine that if they didn't like the service, they'd stop paying.



It's no more of a red flag than taking an extra 3 years on top of the 6 they already had in development to transform the game into something they once again feel is worth charging for. Keep in mind that SE themselves stated that they would release ARR when they thought the game was worth charging for. I think it's fair for a customer to ask for a refund of the purchase price(again, not the subscription) at any point up until ARR is released. I think it's fair to say that almost any business would do the same.

There is no malice or deception because SE has stated that they intend to make good on their promise of fixing the issues. Say what you want about the potential, the product still hasn't been delivered.

How is that fair? Is it fair if you buy a game you thought was going to be good, you played it for a year even though it was almost universally considered to be a failure and awful, then they changed it to make it better and appease fans and you ask for a full refund because YOU don't like it? Again, I think that's just acting like an entitled jerk. They didn't even charge a sub fee for what, 8-9 months? That's free entertainment for going on a year, at the cost of a one-time fee to buy the game, and you think it's ok to ask for your money back after they attempt to improve it, simply because you don't like it? That's pettiness at it's best imo.

WTF is a WoW clone? A game that does what WoW did and use all the best ideas and improve on it? All WoW is; is the "Apple" of MMO's. The only unique thing WoW had was phasing.

And FFXI had **** controls compared to any other MMO out there unless you used a controller. I'm surprised I stayed as long as I did. If it wasn't for the controller I would have quit.

Bad movies are still entertainment. Bad books are still entertainment. Poorly designed golf courses still provide entertainment. Just because the game was a failure doesn't negate the 100's of hours of entertainment it provided players. Heck, I played for months even though I knew it was underwhelming, because I still enjoyed parts of it. Much like I will watch a bad movie or read a bad book on occasion if it has at least 1 redeeming quality.



No they didn't. Yoshi said he felt the game was up to the standards of a subscription fee when they started charging. It was in a Producer Letter. A fair number of people agreed with him. Had I not already become invested in swtor, I probably would have paid for it myself.



The OP called them up, they listened to his complaints, and tried to sell him on ARR. He claims they are refunding him... I think he's full of crap, as SE has absolutely zero obligation to do so. The product is NOT incomplete now. Have you played it? It's a completely fleshed out game. Some people might not like aspects of it, but it's not the lag-fest shell of a game it was during 1.0. And you know the crazy part? SE is nice enough to even give all those who bought the 1.0 version a FREE copy of ARR on top of the free game time they already got. Asking for a refund on top of that is shallow and petty, I don't care how you look at it.



And they paid for it by tarnishing their reputation, losing thousands of fans, and millions upon millions of dollars. Hopefully they've learned their lesson, and based on the beta I'd say they probably have. If you want to agree with the OP, that's fine. It's your opinion. I think you're just as shallow and petty if you think he somehow deserves a refund, or that anyone else does. You purchase the product, you play it, that's your choice. You don't cry about it 3 years later asking for a refund because it's not what you want anymore. That's ridiculous, and nothing you can say will change my opinion about that. Sorry. Anyways, I'm off to bed, so feel free to keep responding but I won't be reading it until tomorrow at work.

Free for a fee? You'll have to explain how that works to me also.


This is correct. However, you're talking about the statement which basically retracted the prior statement about when they would charge for the game. It was before XIV official forums iirc, but I'm certain it was before Letter from the Producer started.



No it is not complete and No, I have not played it since alpha. Wait, did I just say alpha? It's what... beta testing now? How exactly does a beta test qualify as a complete product when the name itself implies that it's still in testing phase? A completely fleshed out game doesn't have regular letters from the developer stating all of the bugs they're ironing out and how they plan to make changes before the game is released. Really dude? Really??

I get that the current state may be to your liking and that the intended direction inspires you to believe that ARR will be great once it is released. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have hope for the future of XIV as well. You're kidding yourself if you think the beta is a representation of a finished product though. Or is it....



Note underlined and bolded above. Again, you'll have to explain to me how something you paid for qualifies as free.

If you want to argue a point that's fine, but many of the things you put forth here are contradictory.


I don't need a refund because I was lucky enough(or unlucky depending on your perspective) to not have been suckered in to spending money the first time around. Speaking of petty... whether or not we can agree that a refund is deserved or not can be argued without the namecalling.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 11:56pm by FilthMcNasty

*EDIT*

Just wanted to correct the timing of the statement relating paid services and PS3. It was after the Lodestone went up, but prior to Letter from the Producer. FYI the statement about resuming the subscription service didn't come from Yoshi, but from Wada himself. Also, the statement about the indefinite extension of the free trial seems to be gone from lodestone. Either that or it's not where the rest of them are.

Edited, Jun 18th 2013 12:14am by FilthMcNasty