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#377 Jun 24 2013 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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Role-playing games started from paper and pencil games which were about... well... endless destruction of the local fauna and leveling up.

Now, let me be clear, not saying you're not justified in wanting another sort of MMO experience, but expecting an MMORPG to be about something other than leveling is a little silly. You're basically asking it to not be an RPG.


An RPG is just a game where you play a character trying to do well for themselves in a virtual world. They needn't involve leveling or killing or any other particular aspect of historical titles. I would happily play a game that involves neither of these if it provides an element of long term challenge. Indeed, I have absolutely no interest at this point in time in monster hunting. I'd rather be involved in industry, trade, development, diplomacy, etc. right now.

In contrast a lot of MMOs feel less like RPGs and more like online action games. It's hard to ascertain your character's place in the world when economic interaction is very basic and one just goes around rampaging most of the time. Even in D&D the point is to experience a meaningful adventure with your companions, certainly not "endless destruction of the local fauna and leveling up". It is of my opinion that incremental reward based mechanics are just a way of keeping people addicted to a game that they otherwise wouldn't want to play. While young consumers are quick to take this kind of bait, I think the WoW generation is growing up and becoming a bit cynical about this kind of thing.

I'm not expecting anything new from FFXIV, by the way, just stating my hopes about the future of the industry. Hopefully EQ3 will be good.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 12:54am by Dizmo
#378 Jun 24 2013 at 11:00 PM Rating: Default
BartelX wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Again, I'm not trying to make a case that XIV isn't innovative or original. I'm just trying to see if there is anything that is unique about what people are enjoying.


Ok, here are some more unique things: the crafting system, which is completely unique and the deepest I've seen in an mmo; the gathering system, which again is completely unique to FFXIV; the ability to change jobs/classes in the field on the fly; the ability to save an almost limitless number of gearsets, the whole armoury system where gear is stored outside of your inventory; the materia system (yes it comes from an FF game but is completely unique to mmos); integrating dungeons into the actual storyline of the game.

I thought of all those reasons in about 3 minutes time. Maybe some have been done before (I certainly haven't played every mmo), but let me ask you this. What game really has many unique features anymore? Does WoW have much that's unique? Does Rift? Does lotro? DnD? Swtor? etc? Each of these games, I can think of maybe a couple things they do uniquely, the rest is either straight borrowed from other mmo's or adapted from them. WoW was an innovator... 9 years ago. Now? Most games have many of the same features. There are still plenty of unique things about FFXIV, not the least of which is the FF lore that you like to ignore for whatever reason.


Materia is basically the GEM system in WOW..... How is it unique ? How is crafting unique ? It's crafting... Smiley: lol yeah gathering is unique.... No other game has gathering.... Smiley: lol Oh yeah dungeons being part of the story... Did not happen in EQ2 nor in Wow, nor in rift, nor in Gw2 nor in swotor.... Smiley: lol

I sometimes do not know how some of you can post stuff like that with a straight face
#379 Jun 25 2013 at 12:18 AM Rating: Excellent
I wasn't aware that WoW predates Final Fantasy VII. I learn something new every day!
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#380 Jun 25 2013 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I wasn't aware that WoW predates Final Fantasy VII. I learn something new every day!

We're talking about XIV though. Similarities with XI can slide since it's an MMO and being from SE, they're expected to have similarities. If you wanted to include things from single player games we probably wouldn't find anything original at all; not just in XIV, but in any MMO.

WoW allows you to change jobs on the fly with the dual-spec talent system. Same can be said for TERA with glyphs. Both WoW and TERA also allow you to store presets for gear. Actually having the gear on you isn't really an issue because you're allowed access to your storage from anywhere in both games. I'm not gonna nitpick **** as long as I see at least one thing that's unique. I understand that not everyone has experience with all MMOs so I'm not crucifying people for having a thing or two that are already in play elsewhere.
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#381REDACTED, Posted: Jun 25 2013 at 1:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You could have said VI where the orignial system came from... But like you said, you are still learning every Day! Smiley: lol
#382 Jun 25 2013 at 1:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wont get into much detail because i can't say i am an expert but i will say that at the moment what is the most unique thing in ARR compared to other MMOs (not counting XI cause its a SE game as well) is the job system. I understand that other MMO allow you to have more than one class like wow or TERA that someone mentioned but FF allows you to have ALL classes in 1 char. Wow only let you have 2 different builds from the same class like you can't be a tauren druid and become a paladin.

There is also lineage that i know that lets you have any class you want in the same char but in order to do that you need to do an insane amount of leveling and then to do a heck of a lot of quests etc to allow you to do it.

Thats from the MMOs i know, i don't believe there is another one that allows you to do that so easily is it?
#383 Jun 25 2013 at 2:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
BartelX wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Again, I'm not trying to make a case that XIV isn't innovative or original. I'm just trying to see if there is anything that is unique about what people are enjoying.


Ok, here are some more unique things: the crafting system, which is completely unique and the deepest I've seen in an mmo; the gathering system, which again is completely unique to FFXIV; the ability to change jobs/classes in the field on the fly; the ability to save an almost limitless number of gearsets, the whole armoury system where gear is stored outside of your inventory; the materia system (yes it comes from an FF game but is completely unique to mmos); integrating dungeons into the actual storyline of the game.

I thought of all those reasons in about 3 minutes time. Maybe some have been done before (I certainly haven't played every mmo), but let me ask you this. What game really has many unique features anymore? Does WoW have much that's unique? Does Rift? Does lotro? DnD? Swtor? etc? Each of these games, I can think of maybe a couple things they do uniquely, the rest is either straight borrowed from other mmo's or adapted from them. WoW was an innovator... 9 years ago. Now? Most games have many of the same features. There are still plenty of unique things about FFXIV, not the least of which is the FF lore that you like to ignore for whatever reason.

I agree with you on this BartelX.


Eden Eternal had a system that allowed you to change classes on the fly as well :P

I keed! Well no, it actually did have that system implemented, but... that game was just terrible. It's a F2P, but even knowing the general reputation that field has, that game is, in my opinion... *twitches*
#384 Jun 25 2013 at 3:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd also just point out that there really isn't much difference between leveling 10 characters to cap in WoW or 22 in XI or however many will be in XIV. Everything is unified under the battletag of your account in WoW so you get all the perks of having completed instances, achievements, ect no matter which character you're on.

The only thing I heard against not wanting to level several characters thus far was a complaint about friends list, but even that is unified. If you put someone on your friends list in Blizz games you'll see them no matter which character they're on. To carry that even further, you can also see your friends online when they are playing other Blizzard games.

This was actually a feature I left feedback asking for back in the first alpha test. I know there are people who aren't leaving XI due to the amount of time they put in. There was a bit of a fuss about SE making another MMO and splitting the population between the games, but I think the community would benefit from being able to link FL between XI and XIV using the Square Enix ID system. Might be iffy with the cross platform thing I guess, but worth considering at least.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 5:08am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#385 Jun 25 2013 at 3:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't need anything unique to play this game. There are plenty of MMO's that had something unique, that i quit playing in a short amount of time.
Aion: you got wings, and could fly/glide around.
Terra: Free targeting / point and shoot.
Warhammer: RVR (this isn't really unique, but they tried to implement it in a different way)
SWTOR: completely voiced over story.
GW2: 1 job can play any role.

All these games have 1 thing in common for me..... I don't play them anymore. Having something unique does not mean you have a good game.
what FF XIV ARR does for me, is take some familiar mmo aspects, and combines them in a FF world. That's good enough for me.
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#386 Jun 25 2013 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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Cross-game chat with XI will likely never happen. XI is too ingrained into POL and its convoluted systems, whereas XIV is mercifully independent of such.
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#387 Jun 25 2013 at 4:02 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
Cross-game chat with XI will likely never happen. XI is too ingrained into POL and its convoluted systems, whereas XIV is mercifully independent of such.


Again, the link between XI and XIV is the Square Enix ID. If they were to implement something it would be independent of POL anyway.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#388 Jun 25 2013 at 5:59 AM Rating: Excellent
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Cross-game chat with XI will likely never happen. XI is too ingrained into POL and its convoluted systems, whereas XIV is mercifully independent of such.


Again, the link between XI and XIV is the Square Enix ID. If they were to implement something it would be independent of POL anyway.


PS2 Limitations? Smiley: laugh
#389 Jun 25 2013 at 6:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Materia is basically the GEM system in WOW..... How is it unique ? How is crafting unique ? It's crafting... Smiley: lol yeah gathering is unique.... No other game has gathering.... Smiley: lol Oh yeah dungeons being part of the story... Did not happen in EQ2 nor in Wow, nor in rift, nor in Gw2 nor in swotor.... Smiley: lol

I sometimes do not know how some of you can post stuff like that with a straight face


Can you triple meld gear in WoW? Does the gear you're wearing get spiritbound to you, and then you can convert it into gems? No? That's how it's unique. Oh, and also... the Gem system in WoW is basically based off the materia system in FFVII (XIV's materia system is based off VII's materia system, hence why it's called materia and not gems or sockets Smiley: rolleyes)

How is crafting not unique? Have you ever seen another system like what FFXIV offers? I'm not saying there aren't other games with in-depth crafting systems, but I've never seen one like FFXIV, nor have I seen a gathering system as unique.

When exactly are dungeons part of the storyline in WoW or Rift or GW2 or Swtor? Are you required at any point to do them in order to proceed with the storyline, because I sure as heck don't remember that. I know for a fact it's not the case in swtor, gw2, or rift... and I certainly don't remember it being required in WoW (I stopped at WotLK). It's optional, and definitely not necessary starting at level 15. FFXIV makes the dungeons a mandatory part of the leveling experience, at least if you want to have any semblance of the story and not take a billion years to level on mobs, leves, and FATEs.

I sometimes do not know how you can post stuff like this and think it somehow strengthens your argument.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 8:32am by BartelX
#390 Jun 25 2013 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
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It seems Filth and Ostia won't be satisfied until XIV is a First Person Action Adventure RTS that allows time-traveling space pony mounts with rainbow lasers that shoot from their horns for unique in-air pvp combat.

Now THAT would be unique, right? 14 tried unique. IT didn't work. I didn't like "different just to be different." The Secret World also tried to be unique. Would you cal that a success?

It's an MMO, and at the end of the day, I want MORE MMO, not less. Stop faulting the game for being an MMORPG.
#391 Jun 25 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
time-traveling space pony mounts with rainbow lasers that shoot from their horns



Shut up and take my money!
#392 Jun 25 2013 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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New dude here, although I've been following the game for a while. (Took a look back in 2010, then tried out WoW after the first iteration of FF XIV got so much bad press.)

Regardless, I've really enjoyed reading y'alls impressions and accompanying debate. Both the praise and the worries have gotten me excited for the potential of this game. Which leads me to my question.

The two things that drove me to WoW a few years ago was the community (believe it or not) and the character customization at max level. Now, FF XIV seemingly already has the community aspect in spades (on both sides of the developer line). However, what about character customization at max level? This is something I haven't really seen a lot written on yet. In WoW (for example) there was a lot of customization in talents and spec. What will my make my max level Paladin or Warrior different from all the others? I understand gear and stats make me numerically different, but I'm talking in terms of abilities, etc. I honestly couldn't care less about mounts or cool-looking armor. I'm an ability and numbers junkie who enjoys crunching numbers and trying out different approaches to a boss to see what ability set is going to help me tank better. Keep in mind I'm never going to be a super-hardcore raider or anything.

Or is it too early in the development cycle to wonder about such things?

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback y'all.
#393 Jun 25 2013 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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Yotis wrote:
New dude here, although I've been following the game for a while. (Took a look back in 2010, then tried out WoW after the first iteration of FF XIV got so much bad press.)

Regardless, I've really enjoyed reading y'alls impressions and accompanying debate. Both the praise and the worries have gotten me excited for the potential of this game. Which leads me to my question.

The two things that drove me to WoW a few years ago was the community (believe it or not) and the character customization at max level. Now, FF XIV seemingly already has the community aspect in spades (on both sides of the developer line). However, what about character customization at max level? This is something I haven't really seen a lot written on yet. In WoW (for example) there was a lot of customization in talents and spec. What will my make my max level Paladin or Warrior different from all the others? I understand gear and stats make me numerically different, but I'm talking in terms of abilities, etc. I honestly couldn't care less about mounts or cool-looking armor. I'm an ability and numbers junkie who enjoys crunching numbers and trying out different approaches to a boss to see what ability set is going to help me tank better. Keep in mind I'm never going to be a super-hardcore raider or anything.

Or is it too early in the development cycle to wonder about such things?

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback y'all.


At level 50, you will be able to equip 5 cross-class abilities from other calsses you have leveled onto your paladin to make it unique. For instance, you could equip cure, protect, and stoneskin from a conjurer, or foresight, bloodbath, and mercy stroke from a marauder. I'm not exactly sure all of the different cross-class abilities that will be available, but there should be plenty of options for those 5 slots to make you feel unique, and to also swap in and out based on circumstance.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 9:34am by BartelX
#394 Jun 25 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
At level 50, you will be able to equip 5 cross-class abilities from other calsses you have leveled onto your paladin to make it unique. For instance, you could equip cure, protect, and stoneskin from a conjurer, or foresight, bloodbath, and mercy stroke from a marauder. I'm not exactly sure all of the different cross-class abilities that will be available, but there should be plenty of options for those 5 slots to make you feel unique, and to also swap in and out based on circumstance.


Ah. That was something I've missed while researching. So that also gives me an incentive to level up other classes. That sounds interesting.

Will more classes be added in the updates to come? Or just jobs?

Thanks for the reply.
#395 Jun 25 2013 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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Both jobs and classes will be added at some point. They've said that the first batch of new jobs/classes should be out before the first expansion, so I'd guess we will see them about 6 months to a year after launch. There's been a lot of speculation as to what jobs they will add, nothing entirely confirmed, but I'd wager that sam/thf/nin (at least one or more of those) will be in.
#396 Jun 25 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
They'll probably do a leisurely pace with further classes, and they will likely also come with expansions. FFXI had 6 basic jobs and 6 advanced jobs originally, which has since increased to 22 different available jobs. Four jobs were added with the first expansion (one was added outside of the expansion, actually, so people could play it without buying the expansion), three with the third expansion, and two each with the fourth and fifth expansions.

It's quite feasible that ARR will follow this same pattern. We'll probably see a new class/job with each expansion, and they very well may add in more jobs to branch off different classes, too.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 10:40am by Catwho
#397 Jun 25 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Interesting. Seems like a pretty deep system. I think I might need to read up on FF XI's classes and jobs. The only experience I've had with FF jobs is FF Tactics from way back when. I'm not sure that applies here.

Thanks for the info.

#398 Jun 25 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
XI's system has 22 unique jobs, and then each of those can strap on any of the other jobs as a "support" job and gain exactly 1/2 of the subjob's abilities, traits, and spells. So I usually run around as a 99 bard with the support job of 49 white mage. Or 99 thief with a support job of 49 dancer.Or a 99 blue mage with a support job of 49 ninja.

The system allowed for an amazing amount of flexibility and made it so jobs could adjust their skills and abilities to each situation. Each job could strap on any of the other jobs as a subjob, although in reality only 2-3 are used on a regular basis.
#399 Jun 25 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Materia is basically the GEM system in WOW..... How is it unique ? How is crafting unique ? It's crafting... yeah gathering is unique.... No other game has gathering.... Oh yeah dungeons being part of the story... Did not happen in EQ2 nor in Wow, nor in rift, nor in Gw2 nor in swotor....


Are you serious dude? How is materia unique? There is no other game that I've played, seen or read about that allows you to make use of your old gear in a way that FFXIV does. Most games after you're done with a piece of gear you either vendor it because it is soulbound and can't be traded or put it on the AH. This game gives the player more choices with what to do with that used gear than I've ever seen.

Crafting - Duh. But since you apparently think that it's similar to any other game where you literally select the recipe, click a button and wait for a few seconds, I'll break it down for you - Crafters. Have. Active. Abilities. Whether or not I get an HQ craft is not just a function of luck. I have to assess the stability of my creation and consciously utilize the skills I have to balance between quality, progress and durability.

Gathering, again - Duh. Active abilities man. Right, other games allow you to locate resource nodes. But other games do not allow you to have a way to actively determine: what resource you get from the node, the chance of gathering success and the quality of said resource once gathered. Also, most games require that you can defeat monsters in the area you wish to harvest from. Enter - Stealth. Gatherers are self sustaining.

Your posts are absurd. You're clearly a troll. And your laughing faces don't give your weak counterpoints any credibility or make them anymore valid. It's like someone saying the earth is flat laughing at someone who knows it is not...

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 11:31am by Kashius1138
#400 Jun 25 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Default
Kashius1138 wrote:
Are you serious dude? How is materia unique? There is no other game that I've played, seen or read about that allows you to make use of your old gear in a way that FFXIV does. Most games after you're done with a piece of gear you either vendor it because it is soulbound and can't be traded or put it on the AH. This game gives the player more choices with what to do with that used gear than I've ever seen.


There are actually quite a few MMORPGs which let you break down equipment into upgrade materials.
#401 Jun 25 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Kashius1138 wrote:
Are you serious dude? How is materia unique? There is no other game that I've played, seen or read about that allows you to make use of your old gear in a way that FFXIV does. Most games after you're done with a piece of gear you either vendor it because it is soulbound and can't be traded or put it on the AH. This game gives the player more choices with what to do with that used gear than I've ever seen.


There are actually quite a few MMORPGs which let you break down equipment into upgrade materials.



It would be best for your argument if you also mention what MMOs you are talking about.


On a side note I know that lineage 2 would let you break down your equipment in crystals and those would let you upgrade your armor/weapon or build a new one etc.
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