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NDA is gone; Got questions? Answers/Opinion thread. Follow

#177 Jun 13 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Default
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Transmigration wrote:
Parathyroid wrote:

5. Rate the following out of 10, Battle System; "Casual-friendly" (10 being most casual); Overall enjoyment



What combat system is not casual friendly in an MMO? This isn't Street Fighter, it is not hard. FFXI's combat was no more difficult than that of Rift, WoW, TERA, TOR, or any other MMO.
Edited, Jun 12th 2013 8:23pm by Transmigration


I'd think this would be pretty commonly understood by now, but hardcore in single-player or small group games refers to difficulty level. "Hardcore" in MMOs generally refers to the time and energy investment required to progress in the game.

Hyrist wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
You don't need to insult me saying I didn't know how to play, etc. It was incredibly simplistic.

Anyway, my biggest issue was the lack of any kind of micromanagement, again. Surely you can understand that complaint. I really don't like how you just get tons of TP just for starting a fight. It's bizarre and not fun (IMO, of course).


I didn't insult you. I criticized the play approach you were supporting. Please realize the difference. Also, I did specify that the reason for your opinion was due to the ease of the monsters, not by implying that you were a simpleton or anything of the sort.

I disagree on your micromanagement issue. By 35, Lancer had a clear ideal rotation for monsters that could survive that long.

Heavy Thrust combo, into Phlembumize (Maximinzing DoT effect) Raging Strikes (For damage spike) Into True Thrust combo twice to three times depending on need for evasion. On the first True Thrust you use Life Surge before completing combo.

Afterwards you refreshed Heavy Thrust and that damn DoT skill I can't spell.

As far as the TP issue. I flatly don't agree with you. TP in FFXI is the Limit Gage in FFXIV on an individual level. It promotes very passive play and puts Melee classes deeply behind Magic Classes in terms of front-loaded damage output. Now, TP is very similar in regards to MP and needs to be managed more or less with the same regard, which in my opinion is not a bad thing.


An ideal rotation is hardly any better than no rotation at all. Either way, it's just busy work. You're not figuring anything out or improving your skills, at least one of which is basically required to have compelling gameplay. Not to say that the world/story won't help compensate, but anytime someone suggests that there's an ideal rotation, I pretty much resign myself to the gameplay being irreparably boring.

sandpark wrote:
The issue has always been enemy characteristics. You could have the most polished/balanced classes in the history of mmos. If the monsters are one trick ponies and fall over and die like ants. All that class power means diddly squat.

It's rather late in the game to rebalance every monster in the game at this point by launch. So at best we might get enemies HP and defenses boosted up for a short term fix. And hopefully, after launch they take the time to go back and work on enemy characteristics.

Are these battle easy mode comments just related to trash mobs and low level dungeons or later in the game as well?

I think the best way to make hotkey combat(similar to other mmos) feel different and require more than rotations:

1. Is to implement a skill modifier feature as I suggested before. This involves holding or tapping keys to manipulate things like potency, accuracy, criticals, mp conservation, range, AoE spread, conal spread, etc, etc. Each skill has it's own unique modifier applications and make repeatedly used skills effectiveness decay at a steady rate.

Then people can still say you push 1-2-1-3-1, whatever. But... It's not just taking which button you press but at what time you release the said buttons. It's still not twitch skill, but it creates a cerebral correlation on top of the gear and stat builds a player strives for. Am I pumping out good damage? Am I over spending my resources? How should I fine tune my modifiers to fit the appropriate need for this situation?

In a twitch based game, resources can be overcome by moving around. In a static to semi static environment, resources are what makes a game hard when your resources are vastly inferior to the enemies.

Jobs could become more party dependant to maintain resources as their description implies. Classes are more resourceful but lack that punch at the roles jobs fill. That's my two cents anyways....


I'm glad there's someone else around here who understands game design principles. I don't know that I'd agree that the issue has "always" been enemy design characteristics-- player characteristics seem to have been lacking in depth as well, but I think everything else was spot on.
#178 Jun 13 2013 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:



An ideal rotation is hardly any better than no rotation at all. Either way, it's just busy work. You're not figuring anything out or improving your skills, at least one of which is basically required to have compelling gameplay. Not to say that the world/story won't help compensate, but anytime someone suggests that there's an ideal rotation, I pretty much resign myself to the gameplay being irreparably boring.


You've got two major problems with your logic.

First, we have one ideal rotation at level 35. This ceases to be the case when Dragoon comes into focus as we've already confirmed a secondary damage attack rotation. So a rotation for one fight may not be the idea for another.

Second, you're forgetting your opponent. Having an 'idea' rotation does not mean you will always be able to use it, depending on the context of the fight. There may be situations in which you have to compromise your ideal damage for survivability, or that your ideal angle simply isn't accessible full time. At that point, you have to refigure your aproach, and often on the fly.

Having an idea rotation does not mean it eliminates all thought process. It simply gives you a goal to try to achieve through the obstacles in the fight.

Yes, there is adjustments that are needed within the characters themselves. But the majority of the whining on the Beta forums stem from a lack of understanding of the mechanics, not the mechanics being stale themselves. Out of all of them, Lancer's mechanics were the best realized, especially at level 35.

Edited, Jun 13th 2013 7:46pm by Hyrist
#179 Jun 13 2013 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Beta testers are discussing abilities and rotations and classes. I take this as a very good sign.

This is what beta discussions should be. A far cry from the beta threads in 1.0.
#180 Jun 14 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Kachi wrote:



An ideal rotation is hardly any better than no rotation at all. Either way, it's just busy work. You're not figuring anything out or improving your skills, at least one of which is basically required to have compelling gameplay. Not to say that the world/story won't help compensate, but anytime someone suggests that there's an ideal rotation, I pretty much resign myself to the gameplay being irreparably boring.


You've got two major problems with your logic.

First, we have one ideal rotation at level 35. This ceases to be the case when Dragoon comes into focus as we've already confirmed a secondary damage attack rotation. So a rotation for one fight may not be the idea for another.

Second, you're forgetting your opponent. Having an 'idea' rotation does not mean you will always be able to use it, depending on the context of the fight. There may be situations in which you have to compromise your ideal damage for survivability, or that your ideal angle simply isn't accessible full time. At that point, you have to refigure your aproach, and often on the fly.

Having an idea rotation does not mean it eliminates all thought process. It simply gives you a goal to try to achieve through the obstacles in the fight.

Yes, there is adjustments that are needed within the characters themselves. But the majority of the whining on the Beta forums stem from a lack of understanding of the mechanics, not the mechanics being stale themselves. Out of all of them, Lancer's mechanics were the best realized, especially at level 35.

Edited, Jun 13th 2013 7:46pm by Hyrist


Those are basically the same point, and that was just addressed in sandpark's commentary about monster design. It's not something that I would ever overlook. The idea of having an ideal rotation that isn't contextually situated is already a bad starting place. You don't want to have an ideal rotation with some exceptions. You want the ideal rotation to be highly dependent on the encounter. Since as of now we have no definitive reason to believe that the encounters will be varied considerably (and seeing how they balanced the classes, it won't be so easy to effectively deviate from their standard monster designs), this remains a problem.

I'm not necessarily criticizing SE specifically; I think this is done pretty poorly by every MMO that uses the EQ/WoW model.
#181 Jun 15 2013 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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When you search for something it shows a list of all items that correspond to your search criteria. (Search by name, partial name, general type, specific type plus level.) It shows the item name and how many are being sold. You click the item on the market board and it sorts them by price, lowest to highest. You can buy from any city, even if you're not in it, but you'll have to pay a fee of you're not in the same city the item is located in. Hope this helps! It's everything the help notification told me when I clicked the market board.
#182 Jun 15 2013 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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benjjjamin wrote:
There's new indication that each job has two...for lack of a better word subjobs.
â—¾Paladin, requires Gladiator level 30 and Conjurer level 15. Can use Marauder and Conjurer abilities.
â—¾Dragoon, requires Lancer level 30 and Pugilist level 15. Can use Pugilist and Archer abilities.
â—¾Monk, requires Pugilist level 30 and Lancer level 15. Can use Lancer and Archer abilities.
â—¾Bard, requires Archer level 30 and Conjurer level 15. Can use Conjurer and Thaumaturge abilities.
â—¾Warrior, requires Marauder level 30 and Gladiator level 15. Can use Gladiator and Pugilist abilities.
â—¾White Mage, requires Conjurer level 30 and Gladiator level 15. Can use Gladiator and Pugilist abilities.
â—¾Black Mage, requires Thaumaturge level 30 and Pugilist level 15. Can use Pugilist and Archer abilities.
â—¾Summoner, an upcoming job of A Realm Reborn, will be available to Arcanists.
â—¾Scholar, an upcoming job of A Realm Reborn ??? profit

Then there may be a dabbling of tertiary abilities. Level those subs!!


Is this still the case in the new Beta?
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Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
#183 Jun 15 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Wait. So.. drgs can use chakra?? And self heal?? .. .. .. EPIC
#184 Jun 15 2013 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
When you search for something it shows a list of all items that correspond to your search criteria. (Search by name, partial name, general type, specific type plus level.) It shows the item name and how many are being sold. You click the item on the market board and it sorts them by price, lowest to highest. You can buy from any city, even if you're not in it, but you'll have to pay a fee of you're not in the same city the item is located in. Hope this helps! It's everything the help notification told me when I clicked the market board.


Can you send things to people (not selling anything, just sending it)? Thanks.
____________________________
http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/242033

Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
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