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I hope they have exp party levelin contentFollow

#27 Jun 04 2013 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,737 posts
Wint wrote:
Aside from dungeons, friends of mine and I have also grouped together to do guildleves. Basically you all get your guildleves from the NPC, set them to the highest level, and when you start one if anyone else has that same one (they change randomly) then once you're done everyone who has it turns that one in. Rinse-repeat. The interesting thing we noticed is with more people and doing them at the max level, we'd see random treasure chests out in the world (only visible to us of course) that contained loot that you could get in the dungeon for that level.


That may be as close as it gets to old school FFXI partying. And it's not bad... You're still fighting in a group, you're still fighting mobs that you couldn't kill normally by yourself.. You're getting decent xp for it because guildleves still do that when you crank them up right?

Wint, do you know if there's a limit to the number of guildleves you can carry around with you at a time? How long could you sustain something like this?
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#28 Jun 04 2013 at 7:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Wint wrote:
Aside from dungeons, friends of mine and I have also grouped together to do guildleves. Basically you all get your guildleves from the NPC, set them to the highest level, and when you start one if anyone else has that same one (they change randomly) then once you're done everyone who has it turns that one in. Rinse-repeat. The interesting thing we noticed is with more people and doing them at the max level, we'd see random treasure chests out in the world (only visible to us of course) that contained loot that you could get in the dungeon for that level.


That may be as close as it gets to old school FFXI partying. And it's not bad... You're still fighting in a group, you're still fighting mobs that you couldn't kill normally by yourself.. You're getting decent xp for it because guildleves still do that when you crank them up right?

Wint, do you know if there's a limit to the number of guildleves you can carry around with you at a time? How long could you sustain something like this?


You could sustain it for as long as you have Guildleve Allowances. You can have 4 at a time, but they usually don't take you far from the camp they originate from, so it's not like running back to camp to turn them in is time consuming. We would finish them all before running back en-masse to turn them all in at once.
#29 Jun 04 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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If I didn't work and had all of the time in the world, I'd love to go back to a FFXI style of leveling.

It DID teach you about the class; how to pull correctly, how to manage hate, how to manage people who couldn't manage hate, how to tank correctly, how to correctly set up a skill chain...and it was fun.

Yes, soloing was tough too, but it was an unintentional irony, that it was. Soloing may have taken more skill, but also for less gain.

I hope that FFXIV rewards skillful soloing; something I haven't seen a game do yet. And as much as I loved the grouping in FFXI, there were too many negatives.

I would like to see parts where grouping/alliances are mandatory and where grouping is fun strategic and rewarding as well.

There was a sense of camaraderie, especially in big groups, traveling halfway across the world to fight an NM, for a limit break that no game has ever recreated. So I get where the OP is coming from, but FFXIV is going to have to make its own mark in this respect.
#30 Jun 04 2013 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:

Nope! It will be the same as in any other MMO, there are things that require groups to do, do not think 90% of the game is solo, but up until End-Game, you can pretty much solo your way to 50. Now it would be faster if you group up.

Then everything is as it should be. You can solo in any game. It is faster to group up. The only difference from XI to ARR. Is you are not punished for not grouping or forced to level one way.

You can level:
Crafting(Possibly team based if the boat/housing thing allows it)
Pt open world Monster grinding
PvP
Fates,
Guildleves,
Dungeon grind in pt
Behests
quests
what else?

It's a modern mmo. Now some might throw that everything is watered down comment in there. But anything is watered down depending on how you challenge content and at what level.

Leveling at the core is not supposed to send you through hell the whole way. It can throw some road bumps like genkai, artifact armor, etc. Leveling is supposed to be an experience you can enjoy for the most part as you gradually progress learning the foundations of how the world works. It's the endgame that is supposed to push your limits when you have reached the pinnacle of your characters progress. Then when you think you conquered all. The next update/expansion comes and you repeat the process, quit, or sometimes you just start over because you loved the journey so much.

Edited, Jun 4th 2013 9:45pm by sandpark
#31 Jun 04 2013 at 7:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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611 posts
Kierk wrote:
how to manage hate, how to manage people who couldn't manage hate.


That was funny Sir. True and very funny. Smiley: lol
#32 Jun 04 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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972 posts
This game is going to hit a larger playerbase than XI, mark my words. The players that stay or carried over from XI. Are the ones that are done with the way XI did things. The ones who leave and return to XI are the ones who dislike this varied approach to leveling. The ones who leave and return to other mmos are the ones who think other mmos did this better than ARR or XI.

The sustainability is what it is going to come down to.
Either you make everything time consuming and get away with slower content trickling.
Or you make everything take less time, but by god, you better push that content out in spades.
This is the challenge that ARR has to meet if it wants to compete with it's own older mmo and other mmos.




Edited, Jun 4th 2013 9:55pm by sandpark
#33 Jun 04 2013 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
I had a great time with FFXI, though it's been years. Now with ARR coming online soon I'm starting to get back into the swing of things. That earlier comment about soloing until the dunes brought me way back, and had me cheering "to the DUNES!" in my head.

That being said, party grinding was a good/safe way to work on skills. But at the same time I found it VERY hard towards the end to find parties to keep leveling up. My hours at the time left me with a lot of the JP players that weren't looking for ENG players. I was an extremely well equipped Galka with all levels stuck at 67 because of lack of party availability (MNK, DRK, NIN, WAR, PLD). After staring at a screen for hours shouting I just left the game. Even maxing out alchemy and farming I couldn't find any more interest in the game. I'm hoping for something better in ARR and can't wait to get back into the fold.
#34 Jun 04 2013 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
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1,004 posts
EvilMadMike1982 wrote:
Nothing worse than having people in your party on higher levels and not know a thing about the job they were using. Too much PLing and not enough parties. As mush as it was getting annoying visiting the dunes it was still a great start in learning the job and what it could become.


i have to dissagree on this.

Sure, there were people who decided to level up their weapons in dyna because they just got done PL'ing their sam to 75. But anyone who had any respect for their LS and friends didn't bring the job to anything until it was ready.

I also don't think PL'ing made you necessarily bad at a job, unless it is the first job you ever leveled and don't understand how the game works. I PL my brd, blm, thf to 75 but knew how to play those jobs from simply watching other people play them and searching for info.

PL can be bad under the right circumstances, but i think it comes down to people just being impatient and not doing the neccessary skilling/research like they should be.
#35 Jun 04 2013 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
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5,055 posts
Viertel wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
onineko wrote:
Its dead get over it.




sooo learning how to play your job is dead? umm thats refreshing lol


Killing 5 billion crabs/birds/worms/etc. the same way every single time didn't teach anyone a damned thing about his class and don't try to delude yourself into thinking it did. Pushing the limits of what you can personally do solo or with friends is learning your class.

Killing your 3,271 Snipper doesn't teach you anything other than that they all die the same way.

EvilMadMike1982 wrote:
Nothing worse than having people in your party on higher levels and not know a thing about the job they were using. Too much PLing and not enough parties. As mush as it was getting annoying visiting the dunes it was still a great start in learning the job and what it could become.


Except it didn't. Take the glasses off.


Edited, Jun 4th 2013 8:00pm by Viertel



umm i listed all the things being in a party teach you, try talking about THOSE things... for example.. hate control.. how is being solo gonna teach me how to pull hate off of (or not pull hate off of) someone and know how and when to h old back in a fight so the tank can do his.her job if there isnt a tank in the group for me to do those things with? Also skillchaining and magic bursting is usually a two man job.... two man =/= solo
#36 Jun 05 2013 at 12:35 AM Rating: Default
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1,313 posts
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
I had some good times at xp camps too, but what is the difference between grinding the same dungeons with your friends or a group that is put together for you and grinding at the same camps with a group you have to put together or wait (sometimes hours) for?

The dungeon will drop things you need, test and hone your skills far more, and have a point to it. People are thinking this game will be for more solo oriented than FFXI. I completely disagree. I think far more people will be introduced to and allowed to participate in group content than there ever were in FFXI.


Nope! It will be the same as in any other MMO, there are things that require groups to do, do not think 90% of the game is solo, but up until End-Game, you can pretty much solo your way to 50. Now it would be faster if you group up.


Yep! More people will be able to do group content! WoW and other MMOs are solo able, but what is the preferred and most widely used form of leveling? You guessed it, dungeons! Otherwise known as group content. Smartass.
#37 Jun 05 2013 at 2:00 AM Rating: Default
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
I had some good times at xp camps too, but what is the difference between grinding the same dungeons with your friends or a group that is put together for you and grinding at the same camps with a group you have to put together or wait (sometimes hours) for?

The dungeon will drop things you need, test and hone your skills far more, and have a point to it. People are thinking this game will be for more solo oriented than FFXI. I completely disagree. I think far more people will be introduced to and allowed to participate in group content than there ever were in FFXI.


Nope! It will be the same as in any other MMO, there are things that require groups to do, do not think 90% of the game is solo, but up until End-Game, you can pretty much solo your way to 50. Now it would be faster if you group up.


Yep! More people will be able to do group content! WoW and other MMOs are solo able, but what is the preferred and most widely used form of leveling? You guessed it, dungeons! Otherwise known as group content. Smartass.


Well you can be Rude! And Wrong! At the same Time! Smiley: lol

Questing is the most preferred and widely used form of leveling Kid. Most people only do a dungeon once, then keep on spamming quests.
#38 Jun 05 2013 at 4:22 AM Rating: Default
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1,122 posts
I don't the merit of having 50 levels of soloing before the multiplayer end game. What was the point of the levelling process?

It's just putting a menial barrier in front of what is arguably the core game to keep people subscribing longer. In any other genre this wouldn't be acceptable design.
#39 Jun 05 2013 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,899 posts
Ostia wrote:
Well you can be Rude! And Wrong! At the same Time! Smiley: lol

Questing is the most preferred and widely used form of leveling Kid. Most people only do a dungeon once, then keep on spamming quests.


I'm going to preface this by saying I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious as to the methodology behind this. Are there statistics or polls as to what is the most common form of leveling in WoW? I only ask because I didn't level the majority of the time through quests, I did randoms almost exclusively, because I disliked most of the quests in WoW. And yes, I would get repeat dungeons, but there are also different dungeons for almost every level of WoW, and if you run through them in their entirety, which I usually did since I was tanking, you could get like half a level per dungeon. So it wasn't that many repeats. I very well could have been in the minority, I'm just curious where you're pulling your assertions from.
#40 Jun 05 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,313 posts
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
I had some good times at xp camps too, but what is the difference between grinding the same dungeons with your friends or a group that is put together for you and grinding at the same camps with a group you have to put together or wait (sometimes hours) for?

The dungeon will drop things you need, test and hone your skills far more, and have a point to it. People are thinking this game will be for more solo oriented than FFXI. I completely disagree. I think far more people will be introduced to and allowed to participate in group content than there ever were in FFXI.


Nope! It will be the same as in any other MMO, there are things that require groups to do, do not think 90% of the game is solo, but up until End-Game, you can pretty much solo your way to 50. Now it would be faster if you group up.


Yep! More people will be able to do group content! WoW and other MMOs are solo able, but what is the preferred and most widely used form of leveling? You guessed it, dungeons! Otherwise known as group content. Smartass.


Well you can be Rude! And Wrong! At the same Time! Smiley: lol

Questing is the most preferred and widely used form of leveling Kid. Most people only do a dungeon once, then keep on spamming quests.


That must be why they introduced cross-realm zones, because of all the people out questing right? Wrong, it was to un-ghost the world. People stay in town and queue their way to 90.
#41 Jun 05 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
I'm not picking a side in this debate, but in WoW I have 3 90s on Llane (feel free to look them up if you want: Jumble, Jilt and Droxy) and several characters under 90, and my personal method for leveling is questing. I rarely do dungeons until I hit max level in that game because it's quicker and easier, not to mention all the gold you get from doing it that way.

That's just me. Of course in FFXI it was all about the grouping. Different games play different ways.
#42 Jun 05 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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3,737 posts
Chialing wrote:
I'm not picking a side in this debate, but in WoW I have 3 90s on Llane (feel free to look them up if you want: Jumble, Jilt and Droxy) and several characters under 90, and my personal method for leveling is questing. I rarely do dungeons until I hit max level in that game because it's quicker and easier, not to mention all the gold you get from doing it that way.

That's just me. Of course in FFXI it was all about the grouping. Different games play different ways.


Yeah, I actually have 8 90s, my usual leveling path is:
1 - 60: questing (dungeons don't provide enough xp at this level)
60 - 80: some questing, HEAVY dungeons
80 - 90: about an equal mix between questing and dungeons

My rationale for this is pretty simple. As I said, 1 - 60 dungeons aren't really great sources of xp, and they're lousy sources of gear. Plus with the Cataclysm expansion, Blizzard made the questing from 1 - 60 suck a lot less than it used to, so questing primarily for those levels. In the BC and WotLK levels, the questing kind of takes a dive in fun, and the dungeons get a lot better in terms of time vs reward, so heavy on dungeons. After that in the cata->mists levels, the questing is pretty high-quality and the dungeons provide a nice reward and a nice break from questing, so those get mixed together.

Cross-realm zones were meant to help low pop servers not feel like ghost towns while out in the world. I don't think it's because OMG NOBODY QUESTS, I think it's because there are a jillion different leveling paths through the game, and this lets one of them feel more alive, especially on low-population servers where even at max level there aren't a ton of people around.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#43 Jun 05 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Default
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
I had some good times at xp camps too, but what is the difference between grinding the same dungeons with your friends or a group that is put together for you and grinding at the same camps with a group you have to put together or wait (sometimes hours) for?

The dungeon will drop things you need, test and hone your skills far more, and have a point to it. People are thinking this game will be for more solo oriented than FFXI. I completely disagree. I think far more people will be introduced to and allowed to participate in group content than there ever were in FFXI.


Nope! It will be the same as in any other MMO, there are things that require groups to do, do not think 90% of the game is solo, but up until End-Game, you can pretty much solo your way to 50. Now it would be faster if you group up.


Yep! More people will be able to do group content! WoW and other MMOs are solo able, but what is the preferred and most widely used form of leveling? You guessed it, dungeons! Otherwise known as group content. Smartass.


Well you can be Rude! And Wrong! At the same Time! Smiley: lol

Questing is the most preferred and widely used form of leveling Kid. Most people only do a dungeon once, then keep on spamming quests.


That must be why they introduced cross-realm zones, because of all the people out questing right? Wrong, it was to un-ghost the world. People stay in town and queue their way to 90.


Smiley: lol Is that why they introduced cross realm dungeons ? Because everybody was out there doing them ? Nope! They introduced them, because of the long queue times people had, waiting for healers/tanks. Take GW2 for example, the first dungeon is lvl 30+.... How do you think people got to level 30 ? Doing dungeons that do not exist ? Or questing ? Same with Tera/Swotor/Wow Etc etc. The main way to level up is doing quest, hell go back to XIV 1.0... People where not spamming dungeons, they where doing leves and getting Power leveled.
#44 Jun 05 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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9,997 posts
Personally I prefer party leveling through quests, but XI and Everquest did such a poor job of providing grouping tools, balancing classes, and emphasizing individual contributions to the group, it doesn't surprise me that most people find it to be a broken way to play.
#45 Jun 05 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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210 posts
sandpark wrote:
This game is going to hit a larger playerbase than XI, mark my words. The players that stay or carried over from XI. Are the ones that are done with the way XI did things. The ones who leave and return to XI are the ones who dislike this varied approach to leveling. The ones who leave and return to other mmos are the ones who think other mmos did this better than ARR or XI.

The sustainability is what it is going to come down to.
Either you make everything time consuming and get away with slower content trickling.
Or you make everything take less time, but by god, you better push that content out in spades.
This is the challenge that ARR has to meet if it wants to compete with it's own older mmo and other mmos.


In a perfect world, everyone would be able to level however they like. However, I am one of the people who prefers to level through content as opposed to killing the same mobs over and over. I also agree with the people who say that mindless killing of mobs doesn't make people better players. I can personally testify that I didn't become a competent ffxi player until I got in a static party and we pushed our team to the limits. Before then, it was just dps, don't draw hate, next mob - no thinking required. I prefer to see rapid leveling with content being released in spades.
#46 Jun 05 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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598 posts
Kachi wrote:
Personally I prefer party leveling through quests, but XI and Everquest did such a poor job of providing grouping tools, balancing classes, and emphasizing individual contributions to the group, it doesn't surprise me that most people find it to be a broken way to play.



It was a sad day when my very first mmo character, an SK Delf in EQ got shot down for the very first time as a gimped tank. Granted my attribute allotments weren't ideal but it was still such heartbreak. Up to that point I had thought I was doing so well! Haha. Good times.
#47 Jun 05 2013 at 10:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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98 posts
I certainly hope there will be gathering parties... I would be absolutely delighted to at least gather up a party of 7 other people and go into a mine and play with song ^^
#48 Jun 05 2013 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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1,313 posts
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
I had some good times at xp camps too, but what is the difference between grinding the same dungeons with your friends or a group that is put together for you and grinding at the same camps with a group you have to put together or wait (sometimes hours) for?

The dungeon will drop things you need, test and hone your skills far more, and have a point to it. People are thinking this game will be for more solo oriented than FFXI. I completely disagree. I think far more people will be introduced to and allowed to participate in group content than there ever were in FFXI.


Nope! It will be the same as in any other MMO, there are things that require groups to do, do not think 90% of the game is solo, but up until End-Game, you can pretty much solo your way to 50. Now it would be faster if you group up.


Yep! More people will be able to do group content! WoW and other MMOs are solo able, but what is the preferred and most widely used form of leveling? You guessed it, dungeons! Otherwise known as group content. Smartass.


Well you can be Rude! And Wrong! At the same Time! Smiley: lol

Questing is the most preferred and widely used form of leveling Kid. Most people only do a dungeon once, then keep on spamming quests.


That must be why they introduced cross-realm zones, because of all the people out questing right? Wrong, it was to un-ghost the world. People stay in town and queue their way to 90.


Smiley: lol Is that why they introduced cross realm dungeons ? Because everybody was out there doing them ? Nope! They introduced them, because of the long queue times people had, waiting for healers/tanks. Take GW2 for example, the first dungeon is lvl 30+.... How do you think people got to level 30 ? Doing dungeons that do not exist ? Or questing ? Same with Tera/Swotor/Wow Etc etc. The main way to level up is doing quest, hell go back to XIV 1.0... People where not spamming dungeons, they where doing leves and getting Power leveled.


A short examination of the timeline shows that Cross-realm Dungeons were introduced first. At which point queue times lessened dramatically, resulting in more people using the dungeon finder for xp. More and more people spent their time in town goofing off and leveling crafts instead of questing. This left the world dead as people who had already done the same quests on x amount of characters no longer had a desire to redo them. The world was then void of players (since most people were leveling through dungeons) and so Blizzard created the cross-realm zones to increase the population in the zones so that the few people who still quested to level up wouldn't be so lonely. Did we play the same game? Or do you just argue for the sake of arguing?
#49 Jun 06 2013 at 12:27 AM Rating: Decent
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
I had some good times at xp camps too, but what is the difference between grinding the same dungeons with your friends or a group that is put together for you and grinding at the same camps with a group you have to put together or wait (sometimes hours) for?

The dungeon will drop things you need, test and hone your skills far more, and have a point to it. People are thinking this game will be for more solo oriented than FFXI. I completely disagree. I think far more people will be introduced to and allowed to participate in group content than there ever were in FFXI.


Nope! It will be the same as in any other MMO, there are things that require groups to do, do not think 90% of the game is solo, but up until End-Game, you can pretty much solo your way to 50. Now it would be faster if you group up.


Yep! More people will be able to do group content! WoW and other MMOs are solo able, but what is the preferred and most widely used form of leveling? You guessed it, dungeons! Otherwise known as group content. Smartass.


Well you can be Rude! And Wrong! At the same Time! Smiley: lol

Questing is the most preferred and widely used form of leveling Kid. Most people only do a dungeon once, then keep on spamming quests.


That must be why they introduced cross-realm zones, because of all the people out questing right? Wrong, it was to un-ghost the world. People stay in town and queue their way to 90.


Smiley: lol Is that why they introduced cross realm dungeons ? Because everybody was out there doing them ? Nope! They introduced them, because of the long queue times people had, waiting for healers/tanks. Take GW2 for example, the first dungeon is lvl 30+.... How do you think people got to level 30 ? Doing dungeons that do not exist ? Or questing ? Same with Tera/Swotor/Wow Etc etc. The main way to level up is doing quest, hell go back to XIV 1.0... People where not spamming dungeons, they where doing leves and getting Power leveled.


A short examination of the timeline shows that Cross-realm Dungeons were introduced first. At which point queue times lessened dramatically, resulting in more people using the dungeon finder for xp. More and more people spent their time in town goofing off and leveling crafts instead of questing. This left the world dead as people who had already done the same quests on x amount of characters no longer had a desire to redo them. The world was then void of players (since most people were leveling through dungeons) and so Blizzard created the cross-realm zones to increase the population in the zones so that the few people who still quested to level up wouldn't be so lonely. Did we play the same game? Or do you just argue for the sake of arguing?


Smiley: lol We played the same game, you are trying to use the addition of cross server zones as a crutch in your argument, but the moment i pointed out that "Well if they added cross server zones because questing was dead, that must mean they added cross server dungeons because dungeons where dead?" Makes perfect sense using your logic on this argument. But! Anyways! If you really really think the majority of people that got to 90 or whatever, got there doing dungeons over quests.... Well! I am impressed by you sir.
#50 Jun 06 2013 at 1:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,313 posts
It's not a crutch. It's the truth. By getting rid of realm restrictions on the LFD tool, more people used it as a means up progressing through levels; which resulted in a huge drop in people questing. CRZ was added to remedy the issue the devs inadvertently created by doing this. Your tenacity in arguing against something so obvious blows my mind. The original point was that most people will choose to use dungeons and group content to level over questing (especially since quests in ARR are one time quests due to leveling all jobs on one character). I really don't understand how you cannot see this as inevitable.



Edited, Jun 6th 2013 3:36am by Transmigration
#51 Jun 06 2013 at 2:59 AM Rating: Decent
Transmigration wrote:
It's not a crutch. It's the truth. By getting rid of realm restrictions on the LFD tool, more people used it as a means up progressing through levels; which resulted in a huge drop in people questing. CRZ was added to remedy the issue the devs inadvertently created by doing this. Your tenacity in arguing against something so obvious blows my mind. The original point was that most people will choose to use dungeons and group content to level over questing (especially since quests in ARR are one time quests due to leveling all jobs on one character). I really don't understand how you cannot see this as inevitable.

Edited, Jun 6th 2013 3:36am by Transmigration


No no no no Now! Truth is Fact! Not an Opinion! The majority of people reach cap level by questing, rather than doing dungeons exclusively, you used your crutch argument in an attempt to prove your point, which btw was a really bad choice, since none of pandaria is cross server, only the old world is affected, and well lets wonder why.... Could it be... That you know.... maybe just Maybe! There are not a whole lot of people starting fresh at level 1 in the old world ? After all this new shiny tool is being wasted in the OLD WORLD... Yet pandaria their new shiny expansion... is Not! Hmm Smiley: lol

Oh and also cross server dungeons where released at the end of WOTLK, we where all 70 already, so 70 levels by quest( I did get one or two in a dungeon) .... The cap is now 90... Hmmm 70 to 20. Yep those dammed quest are sure being outdone by dungeons... Let me throw you an idea... If leveling by dungeons where the way you portray them right, as being the way most people go from 1 to cap level... Then why are MMO'S not following your logic ? It did not happened in Swotor, neither in Tera, neither in GW2, neither in XIV1.0, nor will it be in ARR, nor in Rift. Dungeons are a side show until you hit cap, then they are your main course, until then, they are only good for 1-2 runs then is off to level up by quest/grind until you get to the level requirement of the next big new shiny dungeon.

Dungeons have their place in MMO'S, but they are not the main path to cap as off yet, unless i am reading this whole "You must be X level to enter X dungeon" wrong... Maybe i never found this level 1 dungeon that would get me to next tier dungeon in all this MMOS... Damm MMOS Tricking People!

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