PVP Worlds...Follow

Agreed 100%. I also think 3/4 of the issue in this conversation is that people are switching back seamlessly between PVP and PVE and no one actually knows what the other person is trying to say.




Edited, Jun 2nd 2013 9:57pm by Parathyroid

Who the hell are these majority of people? I assure you they aren't MMO players... Everyone I know (anecdotal evidence alert) loves the balance of the MMOs they play. As someone said before, if you wanted perfectly balanced classes go play a fps.

So I suppose it becomes a matter of philosophy. Do you build an MM fricking O for MMO players, or do you build it for FPS players (let us assume I'm referring to RPGs specifically.)

Since you love analogies so much, I'll provide one of my own. If you decide to build an MMO for someone other than MMO players, based on their "unhappiness" (I'm playing the worlds smallest violin for them right now, it's a sad sad song that's like building a Ferrari with four doors and child safety locks... why? Because the Prius owners wanted something that suited their needs better.

Anywho... Ohhh all-knowing-all-powerful-one I await your response!

Well it seems not only do i disagree with you, but Yoshida does as well

Then I guess neither of us think much of the other's capacity for discourse. Simple solution then, right?

I'm sorry, I don't understand the problem. You are just describing the concept of a support class.


What?



Indeed.

You just don't understand his genius. It must hurt.

My god so many posts!!

Well ill be that guy and get this thing back on track!...YEA who is with me?....no one? Well whatever..

Yea so some people loved the PVP worlds in wow (not me) because as i heard them say when you are in higher levels it adds some "realism" since 2 different factions keep fighting over and over again. Of course open world pvp has many other problems that we all know but yea it does seem nice when you get 500 people to storm the opposing factions cities (FOR THE HORDEEEEE... <3 I loved that one) even though that one is also in pve realms but anyway.

For me i liked the battlegrounds..they were like minigames that i enjoyed as hell. That's how i like my pvp i do not want to get a 12 year old with uber awesome PVP skills to keep killing me over and over again and not let me finish the freekin quest when i went to play my favorite MMO after a hard day at work.

Welp thats my take.

Oh one last thing i agreed with Ostia in some of the things he said but i couldn't disagree more when you said



While it is true that he must maintain a vision of what game he wants to put out there. If you do not listen to your fans then you lost the game go play it yourself and the rest of the dev team alone.

True fact Eve online was going in a direction that the gamers didn't like. CCP was trying to introduce new things in the game (walking in stations micro transactions for outfits etc) and they had the stack up attitude saying that "we are doing it deal with it". The result? A dramatic drop in subs and also a huuuuge portion of the players (and i mean in thousands) where storming the head solar system of the game and were shooting a memorial there along with normal player kills. That caused massive lags from all those thousands of people in one place shooting everything (i believe even one of the last super carriers in high security systems undocked for the heck of it as he said Spoilerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGEhi8QZqhM). CCP even had to go out and tell the players to avoid that solar system. In the end CCP had to apologize to the players and stop what they were doing and give the players what they really wanted.

The result? after a year CCP manage to break the 400k and 500k i believe barrier of subs because people started coming back.

What i am trying to say is yea devs need to have a basic idea of what they are doing and where they want their game to go but they will lose the fight if they do not deliver what the players want.



Edited, Jun 3rd 2013 4:52am by Teravibe

Just chiming in... havent posted in awhile. Hi all btw!

Back on like page 2 or 3 of this thread (which im too tired and lazy to go back and find), someone mentioned FFXI not having a strong base of PVP players for things like ballista or diorama. I haven't played FFXI since back when the level cap was 75 and people were smashing colibri in merit parties. Back in those days, weren't there 2 "unofficial" PVP servers? After the world transfer thing came to light, people interested in PVP would migrate to those servers for the sole purpose of PVP. One was Lakshmi server, and the other... not really sure. I wanna say Pandemonium?

Anywho, point is PVP did indeed exist in FFXI, and I know (at least back in the old days) that some people who had already finished the main storyline missions and got their 75 jobs and decent-ish gear weren't interested in dynamis runs or sea farming anymore. It was ballista and diorama all day, every day... just not on every server hehe. I still recall the good ol' times when people who couldn't enter an official ballista match would just stand by the herald and literally watched the battles from the sidelines.

Ahh man I'm struggling to remember the name of those 3 official ballista zones. Tahrongi Canyon, Pashow Marshlands i think and uhh... some other place (good lord its been so long). Anywho, the ballista heralds in those 3 zones were never lonely. I mean never. Ever. And about 70% of the time, the matches would be completely full. Every single day. All day long. It was a blaaaaaaaaaaast! Ahh the memories... :D

K bye. :)

You want to know why people are calling you arrogant?



You think for some reason people are too stupid, or don't have enough experience, or whatever it is, to understand your point. That is why people think you're being arrogant. I understand your point precisely. You feel that if you are able to balance classes for PvP in a 1 on 1 setting at the start, that it will allow developers to make engaging content for both PvP and PvE that is easy to incorporate and allows for all classes to be utilized in a relatively even manner.

It's not a hard point to understand, it's very cut and dry. There have been several people in this thread who have even paraphrased your point, to which you have agreed that they nailed it. We've then offered up reasons why we feel that it probably won't work out that way, to which you just immediately dismiss by saying "we don't understand". It's a cop out. Rather than actually attempt to defend your position, you revert back to this "you don't get it" mentality at every turn, and then claim that people aren't being civil.

Was that just a cover to say I'm not being civil? If so, I'll again point you to the fact that YOU were the one who called me a jackass before I even mentioned your arrogance, other than me pointing out that you lose the argument when you can't separate your opinions from facts and are somehow superior to others in terms of understanding. That's pretty much the very definition of arrogance.

Now then, I'd say that's a pretty civil post... whether or not you interpret it that way is another matter, but I'd like to refer you to the quote in your own signature, as actually I feel it's you who has been wrongly confusing inference and implication.

All MMOs must be PVE?

No, but I wish more never even bothered with PVP at all. Attempts to please everyone usually result in pleasing no one. That is my experience with PVP in MMOs. I think PVP contributed greatly to Rift's decay, and I consider it one of the reasons FFXI has lasted as long as it has. With PVP comes a torrent of complaints and balancing issues that, again in my opinion, degrades the morale and culture of MMOs. I think PVP mmo players should be given the opportunity to subscribe to PVP-focussed MMO games. However, this has been tried a few times, and these MMOs have not done well. In fairness, they were not good games. In retro-fairness, I don't think any MMO that focusses on PVP *can* be a good game. Again, there is inherent conflict in RPG and PVP formats that do not go together. There are no other competitive arenas where competitors are given unequal equipment. Practice and skill are what makes competitions competitions. RPG components, again, conflict with what makes PVP inherently good.

If PVP mmos continue to do poorly, PVP should be dropped from MMOs altogether and, again, left to better genres for it.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2013 9:23am by benjjjamin

They just need to hurry up and make Persona Arena / Mortal Kombat Online / Street Fighter Online and call it a day