PVP Worlds...Follow

There will be PvP in FFXIV, and plenty of it to suit the Final Fantasy fanbase.

There is a history of PvP in Final Fantasy games, but it's in the form of card games, blitzball, etc. There is no ganking in Final Fantasy.

People who want a hardcore PvP game should look elsewhere... the last thing Final Fantasy fans want is for developers to be distracted by a facet of gaming that has very little to do with Final Fantasy.

I'm talking world pvp in the traditional 'I gank you while you're fighting a bear' type of pvp. It couldn't work in FFXIV anyway because there are no opposing factions. All pvp in this game will revolve around some sort of event/mini-game/arena, etc.

Tetra Master tables when?

(And before anyone says it, sod off Triple Triad scum. )

It would only work if the 3 nations were at war. They don't seem to be, so I'm not sure how it would really fit outside of arena/battleground competitions. I've always played on PvP servers in other MMOs myself, but I think it would go against the grain of this one.

Also as Ikick was saying, the balancing would be a nightmare. Imagine how angry everyone would be if there was wPvP in FFXI? Rangers and Black Mages would completely dominate everyone. Select target, start casting Thunder V, boom. Then they'd have to nerf magic. Then all the BLM would cry. etc. etc.



This brings up a couple questions:
1. Would it bring in more people than it would alienate?
2. Would it ever even draw enough to have tournaments and things of that nature.

The answer to both is most likely, no. I'm super excited for this game, but it just doesn't have the sort of "twitch" combat system necessary for competitive PvP. They've made improvements over XI, but it's still nowhere near as fast or stun happy as competitive PvP MMOs. It does however, seem perfect for PvE.

Edited, May 31st 2013 2:48pm by Transmigration

Would be nice to see a zone like wintergrasp from WoW in FF14, where grand companies can have staged/training warfare, but World pvp.. No thanks, then SE would be forced to tweek classes all the time, just look at WoW; only certain specs are considered good/must have, waste of time and resources to try balance it all the time :P

Yoshi P has already stated that balance wont be an issue, PVE and PVP abilities will not be the same, so balancing for PVE will not affect PVP balance.

Also this notion that XI and XIV communities are holier than the rest is false, they seem better because if you compared it with other communities that are 3-10 times it's size, it will obviously look like our community is better, in reality is not, we all get ******** and douches, drama and nonsense, no community is better than others.

I'm not anti-PVP, but why focus too much energy on something that's just not seriously a part of Final Fantasy?

In theory it's never a bad idea to provide more options to players. In practice they'd have to consider the return on investment by contrasting the developmental resources to player demand.

Honestly I doubt the demand is worth it, and moreover, I doubt they could do it well because of the way they've taken a PvE balancing approach. If they had been smart and balanced the classes for PvP first and then designed the PvE encounters around that, it could have been a great idea. At this point, it's unrealistic.

And also, is plain unlikely given the Japanese FF culture.

I was not trying to imply that FF has the holy grail of communities, as I pointed out about the XI forums. Those threads I mentioned about Delve have some pure vitriol in them.

As for balance, you may be right, but I don't remember that particular quote. I'll leave it to you to go find it on your own to prove your point.

I will also point out that you have a remarkable talent for putting words into other peoples' mouths that is only matched by your ability to take words out of your own. see: "FF coomunity is holier than thou" and "PvP vs Blitzball is ignorant."

Actually, I do remember him saying that the classes would be balanced differently for PvE than PvP, which is also a fair enough way to do it. At least it's probably the best retroactive adjustment they could make to include something like world PvP. In consideration of that, I think they should have included it. They won't have it by release and I doubt that it would be worth it to add after launch, though.

Ok, you want me to argue that this is a valid point?

Name me one FF title that you play as a villain with a storyline set of missions or has a moral choice system. The player's story has always been one where they are the heroes challenging the forces of evil, even if they did not see eye to eye. Unlike other games in this space, Final Fantasy has a bunch of hallmark characteristics, from the crystals to the job system to world elements like Chocobos. Asking them to shelve that tradition in favour of embracing a popular ideal is just selling out the franchise. That would like WoW being PvE only, since it's own backstory is about warring societies.

There's a difference between could and should. Could the writers come up with just cause for players to be at outright war? Yea, that's relatively easy. Should they come up with that? No, because that runs directly in opposition of the creed of the franchise. Look at FFXI. In the meetings with the nations, they are constantly sniping, and taking verbal swings at one another. But, when push comes to shove, they put aside their differences and realize that they need to work together to fight against the evils in the world.

Sure, their plan is to just make a random adventurer with shifting loyalties their chosen hero, but I never said they were all that bright...

So you might just come back and say to me, "Well Pawk, let the franchise evolve. It doesn't always have to be all about PvE!!!" Let me ask you something:

- Did Dead Space 3 benefit from going from a tense, horror thriller in 1 to becoming generic cover-based shooter?
- Did Assassin's Creed benefit from incorporating tower defense into its gameplay instead of sticking to assassinations?
- Did Mass Effect 3 benefit from taking away all form of true choice in its ending sequence, despite it being a hallmark of the series?

Answer: No, they didn't. They diluted the experience, left players feeling cheated, and in the end did nothing to really benefit the game as a whole, or breathe new life into the series. They felt like remnants from another game being shoehorned into this other experience. Like that one stealth mission in your favourite run-and-gun action game.

So when people say "It doesn't feel like Final Fantasy", they mean "This series has never been about PvP, or playing the villain within the cannon of the story, it's always about reconciliation, redemption, and overcoming adversity by coming together, not by fighting among ourselves."

No, it's not just bad design practice always. Classes absolutely do not have to be balanced perfectly, mainly because there are distinct roles for each class in FF games. A whm SHOULD lose almost religiously to a damage dealer in most 1 on 1 encounters, because that's not the role of a whm. It's role in Final Fantasy games is to play backline healer and buffer. Finding the niche for each class is far more important imo than making them perfectly balanced against all other classes. I don't want my whms to have good DD capabilities just so that they are balanced for PvP. I don't want my blms to have good defensive ability just so that they don't get 1 or 2 shotted by a good melee.

In some games, where PvP is the focus, you're absolutely right that balancing classes against one another is crucial, but for a game like FFXI or FFXIV or any game where PvE is the clear main focus, class balance against each other is a moot point and is actually counter-intuitive. Balance the classes for PvE content. If you want PvP, make the abilities separate and balance them that way like it seems will be the case for XIV.