Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 4 Next »
Reply To Thread

DualShockers article: Info revealed at NicoNico Choukaigi 2Follow

#77 Apr 30 2013 at 5:42 PM Rating: Default
To add to this, voice chat would be okay if you were playing with real people that you actually knew like when I game with my brother. But in the grand scheme of things this probably constitutes such a minority of players there would be no reason dedicate the resources and cost to implement an in-game voice client for only a relatively few people.

Edited, Apr 30th 2013 7:43pm by electromagnet83
#78 Apr 30 2013 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,737 posts
Again, voice chat is MMOs is used pretty much exclusively for endgame content (be it PvE or PvP). You would never hear random voice chat in towns, that'd be horrific.

Also..

Quote:
nothing kills it more than hearing some 15 year old kid screaming at his mom...


It is acceptable in situations like that to mercilessly taunt the kid for not knowing what push-to-talk is.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#79 Apr 30 2013 at 6:03 PM Rating: Default
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Again, voice chat is MMOs is used pretty much exclusively for endgame content (be it PvE or PvP). You would never hear random voice chat in towns, that'd be horrific.

Also..

Quote:
nothing kills it more than hearing some 15 year old kid screaming at his mom...


It is acceptable in situations like that to mercilessly taunt the kid for not knowing what push-to-talk is.



Lol
#80 Apr 30 2013 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
**
660 posts
I'll be playing on console as well; I've been wondering which keyboard I should purchase, whether it's a USB one or the PS3 brand that attaches to the controller. I'll probably invest in the latter. Having to put my controller down to type will probably be a pain in general. I don't plan on raiding or battling much in general, mostly sticking to crafting, so I'm not bothered about voice chat. My friend and I who plan on playing together will be sticking to Skype.
#81 May 01 2013 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Talking to people through text while fighting is not a requirement for a sense of community. Talking to random strangers at all is actually not necessarily required. Sometimes you just want to get in, do a dungeon or whatever, and get out. Sometimes I don't feel like talking to my party members. Does that mean they may as well not be there? No, because if they weren't there, we couldn't do the content.


Isn't this the same as just playing on offline game with AI controlled extra party members? I've played those games. They aren't mmo's. The unfortunate truth is that far too many gamers have that philosophy, and it absolutely DOES effect the community negatively. FFXI had one of the best gaming communities I've ever been a part of, because it was expected. Since there was downtime in battles, you were able to talk to people, and many players did. In turn, it encouraged players to say hello when entering a party, and for others to welcome them. It was nice.

Other games, like WoW, you can't really talk at all during combat. I don't know if that is a reason why most random dungeon runs were dead silent, but a lot of them certainly were. I leveled a paladin 10-80 doing mostly random dungeons and probably 80% of the runs would be absolute silence. I'll admit, some of that was my fault as once I got used to a dungeon I would just speed run it as fast as possible, but I definitely think the pace of combat contributed to that lack of community.

That said, I do agree that voice chat has become very important at this point in mmo gaming. I don't love voice chat, mainly because my fiance thinks its really weird, but I understand it's importance in gaming in terms of coordination and timing, something that is hard to achieve in the same way with text based commands. What I will say though, is that FFXI had some pretty difficult battles that required lots of coordination and timing, tank swapping, kiting... all the same stuff from other mmo's, yet could still effectively be beaten without voice chat. So it is possible, I just don't know how it stays interesting in today's fast-paced gaming environment.

Edited, May 1st 2013 9:16am by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#82 May 01 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
**
660 posts
BartelX wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Talking to people through text while fighting is not a requirement for a sense of community. Talking to random strangers at all is actually not necessarily required. Sometimes you just want to get in, do a dungeon or whatever, and get out. Sometimes I don't feel like talking to my party members. Does that mean they may as well not be there? No, because if they weren't there, we couldn't do the content.


Isn't this the same as just playing on offline game with AI controlled extra party members? I've played those games. They aren't mmo's. The unfortunate truth is that far too many gamers have that philosophy, and it absolutely DOES effect the community negatively. FFXI had one of the best gaming communities I've ever been a part of, because it was expected. Since there was downtime in battles, you were able to talk to people, and many players did. In turn, it encouraged players to say hello when entering a party, and for others to welcome them. It was nice.

Other games, like WoW, you can't really talk at all during combat. I don't know if that is a reason why most random dungeon runs were dead silent, but a lot of them certainly were. I leveled a paladin 10-80 doing mostly random dungeons and probably 80% of the runs would be absolute silence. I'll admit, some of that was my fault as once I got used to a dungeon I would just speed run it as fast as possible, but I definitely think the pace of combat contributed to that lack of community.

That said, I do agree that voice chat has become a necessity at this point in mmo gaming. I don't love voice chat, mainly because my fiance thinks its really weird, but I understand it's importance in gaming in terms of coordination and timing, something that just can't be achieved in the same way as text based commands. What I will say though, is that FFXI had some pretty difficult battles that required lots of coordination and timing, tank swapping, kiting... all the same stuff from other mmo's, yet could still effectively be beaten without voice chat. So it is possible, I just don't know how it stays interesting in today's fast-paced gaming environment.

Edited, May 1st 2013 8:35am by BartelX


I think it is important to remember that a lot of gamers are "antisocial" in general. Or they play to relax, to escape the pressures in society to communicate in order to get things done. There is a certain magic about knowing your party members are on the same track as you without needing to say a word in, for instance, EXP parties. Certainly there is the option of saying hello, but I don't think it is unusual for people to prefer staying quiet. Even just peace and not having douchebags screaming at one another all the time adds to the community, not just the concept of people socializing with one another.
#83 May 01 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Atkascha wrote:
I think it is important to remember that a lot of gamers are "antisocial" in general. Or they play to relax, to escape the pressures in society to communicate in order to get things done. There is a certain magic about knowing your party members are on the same track as you without needing to say a word in, for instance, EXP parties. Certainly there is the option of saying hello, but I don't think it is unusual for people to prefer staying quiet. Even just peace and not having douchebags screaming at one another all the time adds to the community, not just the concept of people socializing with one another.


I guess I just don't really agree that silence adds to the community. That would be like me and my neighbor raking leaves, but me giving no greeting, not saying a word the whole time, and then just leaving. I certainly wouldn't feel a stronger sense of community from that experience, and I highly doubt my neighbor would either. I know that after any of those random dungeon runs in WoW, I never really felt like I gained more of a sense of community. If anything, it kind of detached me from the community and made it that much easier to join in on the silence.
#84 May 01 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
**
660 posts
BartelX wrote:


I guess I just don't really agree that silence adds to the community. That would be like me and my neighbor raking leaves, but me giving no greeting, not saying a word the whole time, and then just leaving. I certainly wouldn't feel a stronger sense of community from that experience, and I highly doubt my neighbor would either. I know that after any of those random dungeon runs in WoW, I never really felt like I gained more of a sense of community. If anything, it kind of detached me from the community and made it that much easier to join in on the silence.


Definitely, I see your points. It comes down to personal preference in the end. Silence doesn't necessarily add to the community, but it isn't detrimental in the same way blatant ******* behavior is. Personally, in LS's I've been in, it was weird for me to join a chatty community with cliques and whatnot. None of them ever spoke to me even when I did say hello. So I just stopped talking, only attended events, and eventually left because the constant exclusivity annoyed me. I think it's wonderful that you are a social person, and I'm sure I would feel welcome if you tried to include me. It's just difficult to find a balance in certain social circles, so the automatic response for people like me is to say nothing.
#85 May 01 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
Isn't this the same as just playing on offline game with AI controlled extra party members? I've played those games. They aren't mmo's. The unfortunate truth is that far too many gamers have that philosophy, and it absolutely DOES effect the community negatively. FFXI had one of the best gaming communities I've ever been a part of, because it was expected. Since there was downtime in battles, you were able to talk to people, and many players did. In turn, it encouraged players to say hello when entering a party, and for others to welcome them. It was nice.


See, I just don't think so. FFXI had a great community for sure. But I don't think it was because of people chatting during combat. I think FFXI had a great community because it had no choice. You couldn't cross the street for a hot dog without a balanced party of 6 people.

In the 4 years I played FFXI, I'm sure I had as many parties where nobody said anything after we worked out our skillchain except to report TP as I had parties that chatted constantly. Honestly, the constant chatting was kind of annoying to me after a while, because it tended to make people miss cues, and it made it harder to see things like TP reports.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#86 May 01 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Atkascha wrote:
Personally, in LS's I've been in, it was weird for me to join a chatty community with cliques and whatnot. None of them ever spoke to me even when I did say hello. So I just stopped talking, only attended events, and eventually left because the constant exclusivity annoyed me.


Hmm, that sounds like some bad luck in LS's. Although I do know what you mean, as I've been in shells like that, I've also been in some phenomenal shells where everyone talked to each other and the atmosphere was excellent. People were encouraged to be vocal and the leaders would actually go out of their way to include people, or ask people questions about themselves. Those were great experiences, and something I hope to see in ARR. If you play, I'd just encourage you to keep looking around until you find a shell that makes you feel welcome, because I can assure you they do exist.
#87 May 01 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
Isn't this the same as just playing on offline game with AI controlled extra party members? I've played those games. They aren't mmo's. The unfortunate truth is that far too many gamers have that philosophy, and it absolutely DOES effect the community negatively. FFXI had one of the best gaming communities I've ever been a part of, because it was expected. Since there was downtime in battles, you were able to talk to people, and many players did. In turn, it encouraged players to say hello when entering a party, and for others to welcome them. It was nice.


See, I just don't think so. FFXI had a great community for sure. But I don't think it was because of people chatting during combat. I think FFXI had a great community because it had no choice. You couldn't cross the street for a hot dog without a balanced party of 6 people.

In the 4 years I played FFXI, I'm sure I had as many parties where nobody said anything after we worked out our skillchain except to report TP as I had parties that chatted constantly. Honestly, the constant chatting was kind of annoying to me after a while, because it tended to make people miss cues, and it made it harder to see things like TP reports.


I should have clarified this... I don't think being able to talk during battles is the only thing that made a great community, but I do think it attributed to the atmosphere quite a bit. Outside of just xp parties though, being able to chat while doing ls events/beseiged/endgame stuff/etc and still fighting also helped a lot. It often broke up the "strictly business" mentality that seems to pervade modern mmo group content.
#88 May 01 2013 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
**
340 posts
3 factors helped the community in FFXI:

1. The fact that we needed a party (or at least help from other players) all the time. Players are more polite with one another when you know that you'll probably need their help later. This also acted as a filter for the most troublesome players, they had more difficulty to find help and thus left the game.

2. Lots of downtime in the game. Waiting for transportation, seeking for party, waiting on last alliance members to arrive. Naturally, we chatted during those time and that helped forging bond with other players

3. Possibility of multiple LS/guild. While some competition during end-game was normal, most of those was still respectful, because we had multiple LS. People with the opposing LS in Sky would often be in your own dynamis or Limbus LS. For my little experience in end-game WoW, were player would actually go out of their way to be a pain for others guild, it helped ~a lot~.

I sure hope we have a community as nice as FFXI in ARR

Edited, May 1st 2013 1:01pm by Pryssant
#89 May 01 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
****
9,997 posts
Regarding chatting and the community, let me just add that I didn't add anyone to my Friend's List unless I felt like we were actually at least becoming friends... because we had been talking.

In other games I've played, even the idea of adding someone to my Friend List seemed pointless and silly.
#90 May 01 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Kachi wrote:
Regarding chatting and the community, let me just add that I didn't add anyone to my Friend's List unless I felt like we were actually at least becoming friends... because we had been talking.

In other games I've played, even the idea of adding someone to my Friend List seemed pointless and silly.


My WoW friends list has plenty of people on it. It just depends what you use it for. If you use it to see when people you like playing with are online, then there's that. If you use it as an enumeration of those who have gained your favor, well ... ok.

My friends list is always a little more sparse when adding someone to it requires their permission. I'll tend to keep it to people I've gotten to know in those instances, as opposed to just people I think are good at the game and I enjoy playing with. Being a social introvert myself, it's a little awkward for me to add people I don't know that well to a friends list that requires them to confirm that's ok.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#91 May 01 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
****
9,997 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Regarding chatting and the community, let me just add that I didn't add anyone to my Friend's List unless I felt like we were actually at least becoming friends... because we had been talking.

In other games I've played, even the idea of adding someone to my Friend List seemed pointless and silly.


My WoW friends list has plenty of people on it. It just depends what you use it for. If you use it to see when people you like playing with are online, then there's that. If you use it as an enumeration of those who have gained your favor, well ... ok.

My friends list is always a little more sparse when adding someone to it requires their permission. I'll tend to keep it to people I've gotten to know in those instances, as opposed to just people I think are good at the game and I enjoy playing with. Being a social introvert myself, it's a little awkward for me to add people I don't know that well to a friends list that requires them to confirm that's ok.


Well, if you don't really talk to the people, to me it's just "networking" i.e., identify people who play the game well and get their help when you need it. To me that's not so much community or leisure as much as "management." Personally I don't like it or appreciate it when someone is hitting me up for help to progress when we share no social exchanges. It's not about gaining favor--it's a friend list. Is this person actually kinda sorta my friend, or am I just wanting their help later because they play the game well? I'd always rather party with someone who was effortfully incompetent but pleasant than someone who played like a machine and talked just as much.

I'm pretty introverted myself, but that doesn't stop me from facilitating conversation on the internet. I mean, even posting here opens you up to more conflict and general disappointment in humanity as attempting to forge friendships in an MMO. Even Facebook requires someone to confirm you as a friend. I've nothing against faceless gaming, but these days there are better titles than MMOs for it, and all too many MMOs for it in general.
#92 May 01 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
I just found out that one of my good friends from XI passed away two weeks ago.

So I'm spreading the word to all her old LSmates, just in case they hadn't heard yet.

Community in an MMO extends beyond the game itself and is what causes people to go to conventions and have meet-ups, to develop and maintain friendships that last even after some folks have quit playing and moved on, and to mourn the passing of a good player in real life.

I've been trying not to cry all day. We'll miss you, Shadechaos.
#93 May 01 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Catwho wrote:
Community in an MMO extends beyond the game itself and is what causes people to go to conventions and have meet-ups, to develop and maintain friendships that last even after some folks have quit playing and moved on, and to mourn the passing of a good player in real life.


To this day, 3 of my best friends are people I met in FFXI almost 10 years ago. We've played countless MMO's together, and I'm pretty sure we will be playing ARR together as well. Hell, they have all been invited to my wedding if that says anything. One of my other good friends quit MMO's after XI, but I still talk to him regularly. I have countless other friends that I've made gaming that all bring back fond memories. So yes, the sense of community definitely goes beyond the borders of the game once those relationships are formed. It's something I never expected when I first started playing FFXI.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
#94 May 27 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Default
electromagnet83 wrote:
SaitoMishima wrote:
Quote:
Yoshida can’t say when beta phase 3 will start exactly, as it depends on Sony’s certification of the PS3 client.


I wont lie. This concerns me..

Lol jk. But no foreal, you telling me phase 3 could be longer than the 2 weeks outlined in the beta roadmap? ugh.. People are ready to try out new cities and classes.. Like Pugilist Smiley: glare


Its not Square causing the delay it is Sony ensuring the client is secure and what not. Has there ever been an mmo on PS3? I dont believe there has been. And Sony is slow...


Edited, Apr 28th 2013 11:26am by electromagnet83



Yeah there been a few mmo already on the ps3,
Dc universe
Defiance
FFXI
EQOA
#95 May 27 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
XI and EQOA are not Ps3, they are PS2.
#96 May 27 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
Ostia wrote:
XI and EQOA are not Ps3, they are PS2.



Off-topic but I googled "PS3 MMOs" and got a thread with the typical notion of "MMOS are hard to do without a full keyboard because yada yada yada." Why do so many people feel this way? I played FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 and FFXIV 2.0 with a controller and loved it. I had no trouble what so ever being an awesome RDM in FFXI and being an awesome GLA in 1.0 The use of the controller definitely did not hamper my ability to play the game.

I'm not putting people down who prefer keyboard, but I don't understand where this mentality of "I need a specially designed 5,000 button keyboard to mash a bunch of buttons quickly if I am going to play an MMO. Period" came from.
#97 May 27 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
I played on PS2 with a controller and USB keyboard during my prime FFXI years, and it was incredibly easy. However, FFXI was also a game made for the ps2, and the user interface reflected that. Subsequent MMOs leaned more on the hotkey-style UI, which is what ARR will be like.

Fortunately, great care is being placed on the separate gamepad UI for ARR, so people who love playing on gamepads will still be able to do so with ease. I always loved having the gamepad to manage my movement and actions, while having the keyboard for chatting and macros.
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#98 May 27 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
*
230 posts
electromagnet83 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
XI and EQOA are not Ps3, they are PS2.



Off-topic but I googled "PS3 MMOs" and got a thread with the typical notion of "MMOS are hard to do without a full keyboard because yada yada yada." Why do so many people feel this way? I played FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 and FFXIV 2.0 with a controller and loved it. I had no trouble what so ever being an awesome RDM in FFXI and being an awesome GLA in 1.0 The use of the controller definitely did not hamper my ability to play the game.

I'm not putting people down who prefer keyboard, but I don't understand where this mentality of "I need a specially designed 5,000 button keyboard to mash a bunch of buttons quickly if I am going to play an MMO. Period" came from.

I agree. I didn't play FFXI until it came out on PS2. I played it on PS2 LONG before I ever switched to computer. Now if they had said it was hard to communicate without a keyboard then yes I agree 100% lol.. But not being able o play because its not a keyboard.. Kinda hard to understand. Though I must say, it is a whole lot easier to click a mob then to shuffle through using a d-pad. But even then, there are macros that help this.

I will probably be playing ARR on computer with keyboard and mouse mostly though. Only because I have gotten so use to it lol.
____________________________
[IMG]http://www.avatarsdb.com/avatars/anime_avatar_01.gif[/IMG]
#99 May 27 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
***
3,737 posts
Quote:
I'm not putting people down who prefer keyboard, but I don't understand where this mentality of "I need a specially designed 5,000 button keyboard to mash a bunch of buttons quickly if I am going to play an MMO. Period" came from.


Screenshot


I'm afraid I don't see the 5000 buttons on this specially-designed keyboard.

That's how most people play MMOs btw.

I actually use one of these things myself...

Screenshot


That's certainly a specialty item. But that's not what you're demeaning people for. You're going after the standard keyboard that's been used with every computer since the word processor.

It's not a "mentality" that makes people wonder how they're supposed to deal with even FFXI's 20 macro keys on a controller with 8 buttons.

FFXIV's controller interface is VERY nice and seems to be designed with this issue in mind. But in the grand scheme of things, it's a big step forward.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#100 May 27 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
SaitoMishima wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
XI and EQOA are not Ps3, they are PS2.



Off-topic but I googled "PS3 MMOs" and got a thread with the typical notion of "MMOS are hard to do without a full keyboard because yada yada yada." Why do so many people feel this way? I played FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 and FFXIV 2.0 with a controller and loved it. I had no trouble what so ever being an awesome RDM in FFXI and being an awesome GLA in 1.0 The use of the controller definitely did not hamper my ability to play the game.

I'm not putting people down who prefer keyboard, but I don't understand where this mentality of "I need a specially designed 5,000 button keyboard to mash a bunch of buttons quickly if I am going to play an MMO. Period" came from.

I agree. I didn't play FFXI until it came out on PS2. I played it on PS2 LONG before I ever switched to computer. Now if they had said it was hard to communicate without a keyboard then yes I agree 100% lol.. But not being able o play because its not a keyboard.. Kinda hard to understand. Though I must say, it is a whole lot easier to click a mob then to shuffle through using a d-pad. But even then, there are macros that help this.

I will probably be playing ARR on computer with keyboard and mouse mostly though. Only because I have gotten so use to it lol.


I found the XI and XIV 1.0 targeting system to be surpisingly intuitive. Up selects me, left and right cycles through the mobs on the field but it generally defaults to the one you're most looking closely at. I never never really had an issue targeting with controller. Once I get my xbox keypad for 2.0 I'll never need a keyboard again!! muwwhahahah
#101 May 27 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I'm not putting people down who prefer keyboard, but I don't understand where this mentality of "I need a specially designed 5,000 button keyboard to mash a bunch of buttons quickly if I am going to play an MMO. Period" came from.


Screenshot


I'm afraid I don't see the 5000 buttons on this specially-designed keyboard.

That's how most people play MMOs btw.

I actually use one of these things myself...

Screenshot


That's certainly a specialty item. But that's not what you're demeaning people for. You're going after the standard keyboard that's been used with every computer since the word processor.

It's not a "mentality" that makes people wonder how they're supposed to deal with even FFXI's 20 macro keys on a controller with 8 buttons.

FFXIV's controller interface is VERY nice and seems to be designed with this issue in mind. But in the grand scheme of things, it's a big step forward.


First, I'm not demeaning people. What I said was that I don't understand why so many people feel an MMO can't exist without a keyboard and a bunch of buttons being involved. And obviously the 5,000 button keyboard was not to be taken literally...obviously. But there is however a market for "MMO" keyboards and mice and my point is that an MMO doesn't need so many controls and buttons to work properly. I hope to prove this in PVP when I destroy a player with such a well designed keyboard or one such as you use which...when you really think about it is just a controller with more buttons Smiley: lol


Edited, May 27th 2013 6:16pm by electromagnet83
1 2 3 4 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 209 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (209)