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Is ARR too expensive?Follow

#52 Apr 08 2013 at 7:38 PM Rating: Default
Yes, 1.0 was a P2P MMO. It was designed as such, it was marketed as such -- when the game launched, the payment model couldn't automatically make it good. A bad game is a bad game... so saying "P2P = Quality" goes down the toilet right there.

Edited, Apr 8th 2013 9:39pm by Killua125
#53 Apr 08 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Average full completion for Bioshock Infinite was about 15 hours. You can probably speed through it and knock that down to about 9 or 10 hours.


Yeah, really; when I saw "Bioshock Infinite" and "after 30-40 hours" in the same sentence I immediately went Smiley: dubious.

edit: which means that FFXIV is even more cost effective than the initial example!


Edited, Apr 8th 2013 10:02pm by KaneKitty
#54 Apr 08 2013 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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To answer the question:

No one knows how much this game is worth. At least not yet.

If it's good, then there shouldn't be any problem paying $15 a month.

If it's not good then stop paying.

This isn't too hard.

You have to want to play the game to want to pay.

---

I was going to come up with an analogy with cars (so if this isn't too fleshed out, sue me), and how I'd never drive a Kia even if it was free, or I'd only drive it around a little bit, but that I'd rather drive a car I'd want to drive while paying a low monthly payment. And I'd choose the latter because I could afford to do so.
#55 Apr 08 2013 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
He's been asked about lifetime and at least for now it's not even on the table.


What about if you pay a year ahead, you get to pay the price legacy players pay for the rest of your life ?

Sounds like a fair deal.


I would personally love a lifetime option, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. I can't say that your option would hold water with most of the existing legacy players (myself excluded, your idea makes sense to me), the howls of rage would be eardrum shattering.


But it would fill the gap that will be created and that some have touched upon by the difference in payments of different camps, sure legacy players will rise up in arms because they dont get to be so special anymore, but not everybody would jump at the offer, It's $179.88 for a full year subscription, not every joe can afford to pay 179.99 dollars off the bat, it would bring SE a boost in revenue and make a lot of the ones that feel they should not pay more than rabid fanboys happy also, and both camps are supporting the game, and SE gets to leech more money at the same time, since is not a life time subscription, but a paying fee in order to get a lower paying fee :P

Ofcourse some details could be worked here and there, like making it a one time thing, or offering some little pet/mount to make it more appealing, but it could work.
#56 Apr 08 2013 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
He's been asked about lifetime and at least for now it's not even on the table.


What about if you pay a year ahead, you get to pay the price legacy players pay for the rest of your life ?

Sounds like a fair deal.


I would personally love a lifetime option, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. I can't say that your option would hold water with most of the existing legacy players (myself excluded, your idea makes sense to me), the howls of rage would be eardrum shattering.


But it would fill the gap that will be created and that some have touched upon by the difference in payments of different camps, sure legacy players will rise up in arms because they dont get to be so special anymore, but not everybody would jump at the offer, It's $179.88 for a full year subscription, not every joe can afford to pay 179.99 dollars off the bat, it would bring SE a boost in revenue and make a lot of the ones that feel they should not pay more than rabid fanboys happy also, and both camps are supporting the game, and SE gets to leech more money at the same time, since is not a life time subscription, but a paying fee in order to get a lower paying fee :P

Ofcourse some details could be worked here and there, like making it a one time thing, or offering some little pet/mount to make it more appealing, but it could work.


Like I said, I think your idea has a lot of merit, and could be an alternative to a F2P model if they feel they need to attract more players even. I would be for it, I'm not one of those who like to lord my Legacy status over everyone else. I subbed the entire time XIV was P2P because I thought Yoshi would lead it in a direction I wanted it to go. I don't regret that one bit.
#57 Apr 08 2013 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
Maybe you should talk about it with yoshi :P Is not a bad idea, and i do not mean it as an option to F2P, i think it could be a good idea, for people outside of legacy to get the best benefit of being legacy by supporting the company financially, not only does SE shuts does people againts legacy by saying "Hey we made this offer, you can either take advantage of it or you cannot" and shut the up, and also rake in some extra cash from loyal fans, i seriously doubt that somebody who does not see a future with the game will pony up the money, and those that actually are foolish to do, well SE squeezes the max amount of money from them, instead of them dropping the sub 3 months in :P
#58 Apr 08 2013 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Ostia wrote:
Maybe you should talk about it with yoshi :P Is not a bad idea, and i do not mean it as an option to F2P, i think it could be a good idea, for people outside of legacy to get the best benefit of being legacy by supporting the company financially, not only does SE shuts does people againts legacy by saying "Hey we made this offer, you can either take advantage of it or you cannot" and shut the up, and also rake in some extra cash from loyal fans, i seriously doubt that somebody who does not see a future with the game will pony up the money, and those that actually are foolish to do, well SE squeezes the max amount of money from them, instead of them dropping the sub 3 months in :P


I can certainly bring it up with the people I connected with, and will. I have Yoshi-san's card and personal email address, but I feel that would be an abuse to email him directly (plus I don't speak/type Japanese) Smiley: smile
#59 Apr 08 2013 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
Welcome to P2P, where you get what you pay for.


P2P doesn't always equal quality. Several horrible, failed P2P MMORPGs, FFXIV 1.0 included, would like a word with you.

Edited, Apr 8th 2013 8:03pm by Killua125


However, F2P does always equal ****** service and "You better pay us eventually!" Just like GW2, it's "B2P" but if you want to save yourself a headache (and you will) you'll dump more money into it than a P2P game.

#60 Apr 08 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
... I have Yoshi-san's card and personal email address...


honeyboi69@aol.com?
#61 Apr 08 2013 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
However, F2P does always equal sh*tty service and "You better pay us eventually!"


Broad generalizations are fun! And always accurate!
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If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#62 Apr 08 2013 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
There is no point in discussing F2P anyway. I was talking about the prices of the retail copy and the subscription, and if the the costs were appropriate.

I didn't bring up F2P, because... obviously none of you want it. I don't care either way, but I think it may come. But if the possibility only makes people upset (unwarranted, imo) it's useless to bring it up again. Cross that bridge if we come to it
#63 Apr 08 2013 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
No it's useless to bring it up because we've discussed it in 5 other threads already. Stop beating the Smiley: deadhorse
#64 Apr 08 2013 at 10:06 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
No it's useless to bring it up because we've discussed it in 5 other threads already. Stop beating the Smiley: deadhorse


When has infinite redundancy ever stopped the Internet from doing anything?

F2P isn't really relevant here anyway since FFXIV isn't F2P and isn't going to be in the foreseeable future.

As to the question of whether or not it's worth the price of admission, well... that's what open beta is for. No really, that exact thing is why open betas exist.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#65 Apr 08 2013 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Maybe you should talk about it with yoshi :P Is not a bad idea, and i do not mean it as an option to F2P, i think it could be a good idea, for people outside of legacy to get the best benefit of being legacy by supporting the company financially, not only does SE shuts does people againts legacy by saying "Hey we made this offer, you can either take advantage of it or you cannot" and shut the up, and also rake in some extra cash from loyal fans, i seriously doubt that somebody who does not see a future with the game will pony up the money, and those that actually are foolish to do, well SE squeezes the max amount of money from them, instead of them dropping the sub 3 months in :P


I can certainly bring it up with the people I connected with, and will. I have Yoshi-san's card and personal email address, but I feel that would be an abuse to email him directly (plus I don't speak/type Japanese) Smiley: smile


Make sure to clean the idea a bit, as i was just writting it as it came to me :P
#66 Apr 09 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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The quality of the game will decide if it is worth the full box price and monthly fee.
It all depends on the users amount of recurring bills in addition to the mmo sub fee, income, and if they play other retail games in determining if it is worth it to them. If Timmy works at wendys and has rent,cable, internet, xbox live, psn plus, frequent haircuts, toilet paper, hygiene products,gas,goes to movies rather often, car insurance, groceries, car payment, utilities, a gf that requires some spending on, a $90.00 a month Iphone,etc, etc, but still likes purchasing other titles. He may have to find some area in gaming or the rest of his luxuries where he needs to scale back.

Is that SE's problem that Timmy can't decide to cut back on something else? No.
But the fact remains that he might have to choose to cut back on something. I chose to get rid cable 5 years ago myself. But even after becoming more wealthy. I chose not to resubscribe to cable for personal reasons. Everyone has different priorities. I think that's the reason why the people who are against sub fees and like to point out that other cheaper games are not so much lower in quality argue about.

After the game releases and if it's quality and has tremendous quantity. But still fails to reach and maintain higher subscriber numbers. The answer will become more clear about what priorities were chosen. Provided SE got a fair deal getting that info out prior.
#67 Apr 09 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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I like that his name is Timmy. Smiley: tongue
#68 Apr 10 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
If Timmy works at wendys and has rent,cable, internet, xbox live, psn plus, frequent haircuts, toilet paper, hygiene products...


Fun fact: shampoo is a completely unnecessary product that actually strips away your hair and scalp's natural ability to regulate itself. If you stop using shampoo, your hair gets a bit oily, then a little frizzy, and then after about 3 weeks winds up better (or no different) than when you used shampoo. Just use plain water afterwards; a bit of baking soda if your hair is actually physically dirty. Of course, this only work for people who don't put other products in their hair, like gels and other noxious crap...

What I'm saying is that Timmy can cut back on all of his fancy hair-care "needs" and be the better for it. Smiley: lol


Edited, Apr 10th 2013 9:32pm by KaneKitty
#69 Apr 10 2013 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've actually heard similar things about soap--that all it really does is strip away your body's oil and spread germs around the body, and when not used to wash actually dirty parts like your nethers, basically does more damage to your skin than anything. I might experiment with this after a bit of legitimate research.

So if this is a clever ruse and three weeks from now I'm a disgusting pile of crap, well played, Kanekitty. Well played.
#70 Apr 10 2013 at 10:13 PM Rating: Default
Ew.

You're not supposed to shampoo your hair every day (just rinse out product, sweat, etc. with water) but weeks?

Edited, Apr 11th 2013 12:13am by Killua125
#71 Apr 10 2013 at 10:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Ew.

You're not supposed to shampoo your hair every day (just rinse out product, sweat, etc. with water) but weeks?

Edited, Apr 11th 2013 12:13am by Killua125


I gave up on shampoo....seemed to be making all my hair fall out lol

Bald is beautiful!
#72 Apr 10 2013 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
I might experiment with this after a bit of legitimate research.

So if this is a clever ruse and three weeks from now I'm a disgusting pile of crap, well played, Kanekitty. Well played.

Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

Oh, if only I could troll that hard. For all I know, it be more or less successful depending upon one's hair and scalp type... but is it really that surprising that a product whose name is a portmanteau of [Lie] + [Sh*t] turns out to be unnecessary?

I thought the same thing, too, when my spouse brought it up. The first couple weeks were dubious at best, but then as I rounded the third week my hair was just... normal again. That was two months ago. I've never looked back.
#73 Apr 11 2013 at 1:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Ofcourse some details could be worked here and there, like making it a one time thing, or offering some little pet/mount to make it more appealing, but it could work.

Making it a one time thing? Drama 2.0!
I seriously don't understand what the whole fuss is about, btw. SE offered a limited special offer for especially loyal customers who paid for a game when its survival was at stake. It takes a full 9 months (1500*9 = 1000*3+1000*9) until the investment made during the legacy gamble pays off. So if anything, I want to see those who want the legacy pricing pay 45 bucks upfront before they are even allowed to dream about it. Because otherwise, I would want my 45 bucks back. Since I didn't play a single second during the three months I paid for!

...

It's like asking for a point card bonus without buying anything before. Or rather like asking for a dividend payout without having invested. Go tell Apple how upset you are that they don't offer their shares at the 1982 rate nowadays!

Edited, Apr 11th 2013 3:38am by Rinsui
#74 Apr 11 2013 at 4:55 AM Rating: Decent
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9,997 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I might experiment with this after a bit of legitimate research.

So if this is a clever ruse and three weeks from now I'm a disgusting pile of crap, well played, Kanekitty. Well played.

Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

Oh, if only I could troll that hard. For all I know, it be more or less successful depending upon one's hair and scalp type... but is it really that surprising that a product whose name is a portmanteau of [Lie] + [Sh*t] turns out to be unnecessary?

I thought the same thing, too, when my spouse brought it up. The first couple weeks were dubious at best, but then as I rounded the third week my hair was just... normal again. That was two months ago. I've never looked back.


In the worst case scenario, my significant other apparently finds my "natural scents" rather desirable. I usually use girly stuff that smells like vanilla, birthday cake, and blackberries, because I like the way it smells. Always hated the chemical smells of the man-washes that were supposed to smell like cologne.
#75 Apr 11 2013 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Some women might find enjoy the natural scent of a man, perhaps more after a day of hard honest work to a degree.
It's the extremes that man or woman get disgusted by when the other sex really avoids hygiene.
Bad breath, sweaty feet, excessive sweat under the arms or other places that skin folds and meet, or the jewels...
#76 Apr 11 2013 at 8:20 AM Rating: Default
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Ofcourse some details could be worked here and there, like making it a one time thing, or offering some little pet/mount to make it more appealing, but it could work.

Making it a one time thing? Drama 2.0!
I seriously don't understand what the whole fuss is about, btw. SE offered a limited special offer for especially loyal customers who paid for a game when its survival was at stake. It takes a full 9 months (1500*9 = 1000*3+1000*9) until the investment made during the legacy gamble pays off. So if anything, I want to see those who want the legacy pricing pay 45 bucks upfront before they are even allowed to dream about it. Because otherwise, I would want my 45 bucks back. Since I didn't play a single second during the three months I paid for!

...

It's like asking for a point card bonus without buying anything before. Or rather like asking for a dividend payout without having invested. Go tell Apple how upset you are that they don't offer their shares at the 1982 rate nowadays!

Edited, Apr 11th 2013 3:38am by Rinsui


#1 The game was not in any danger of being shut down, that is a lie that i dont even know why it still thrown around, Yoshida and SE themselves said "Hey we are gonna charge you guys because of Giggles! But in the case nobody subs up, we are going to go foward with the development of the game" So this notion that legacy players saved the title is utter crap, SE was gonna make ARR one way or another :) We just paid them for pretty pictures they posted and reposted and reposted in every interview up until today.

#2 It is an entierly different metter, when you are basically telling the MMO Genre: Hey! We are gonna charge this guys that are totally irrelevant in the outcome of this game less money because they had low standard of sticking with a game that was utter garbage based on a few screenshots and letters, while you the vast majority whos success of this game relies on, we are gonna charge you the full price.

#3 If legacy only entailed a Free box copy of the game, the gobbu mount and w/e, that would be a different story, but to pay half of what a regular player has to pay, is a different story, people will be put off by that, all i am advocating is a chance of obtaining legacy by giving SE lots of Cash! Even more cash that legacy players originally paid :)

If you only got legacy because you wanted to help SE and loved the game, you should not be opposed to this, unless in reality all you care about is being a special snowflake
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