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- did 1.0 have "complex" quests?
did 1.0 have "complex" quests?Follow
Most of XI's quests gave 0 exp. They gave material rewards (raw materials, gear), access to a later quest in the story, or nothing other than the storyline and a cute title, which was its own reward.
I was talking about the, uh.
Fields of Valor type stuff. (That was the floating book, right?)
They were just quests to kill x monsters if I recall.
Yeah I know the things were actually called "Quests" in FFXI were generally for items or some kind of access to something, or fame, or story.
Edited, Apr 5th 2013 12:52am by Killua125
Fields of Valor type stuff. (That was the floating book, right?)
They were just quests to kill x monsters if I recall.
Yeah I know the things were actually called "Quests" in FFXI were generally for items or some kind of access to something, or fame, or story.
Edited, Apr 5th 2013 12:52am by Killua125
Killua125 wrote:
So... "go and kill 10 crabs" for EXP is fine, as long as they don't specifically call it a "quest"? I don't follow.
Not really-- kill 10 crabs is a fair assignment if I wouldn't be killing crabs otherwise (presumably because crabs are generally more difficult to kill than is worthwhile). If crabs are a challenge that don't give enough XP for killing under normal circumstances, a quest that gives me a fair reward for killing 10 of them is a nice enough deal. Even better if I have to actually explore the area and fulfill other tasks to be able to complete this objective, rather than killing 10 crabs that spawn on the same beach.
Generally it's more than just calling it a quest, but even if that were all it was, I don't appreciate it. Maybe I actually want to do all of the REAL quests, and now I have to sift through these trash "quests" as well. It's poor information management, and in a video game, information management is critical at every juncture. Those junctures determine the information hierarchy. In short, the labels matter.
Those are the reasons that it matters. As a game designer, you have to show regard for player goals, whether that's having fun while XPing efficiently, or experiencing the entire questing narrative.
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
By "complex" I mean talk to an NPC.. find a ??? and get as key item for it... or sawn an nm tat 100% dropped an item for teh quest etc etc or was it just the standard WoW variety of "kill xxxx amount of enemies" or get "xxx amount of drops from killing certian enemy"?
WoW has so many complex quests that go beyond kill/gather x. I don't know why people always use it as an example. Some of the quests are really @#%^ing cool.
For example: In one questline I got to use a gattling gun mounted to a plane to fend off enemy planes. In another I got to participate in aerial jousting. In another I got to infiltrate an entire compound without being seen to assassinate the leader...
What other MMOs have you played with quests such as those? (Not missions, regular xp quests)
Edited, Apr 5th 2013 2:42am by Transmigration
That was true. Wow had some really god damn cool quests. But on the other had it also had some seriously annoying ones!! To be honest in analogy, wow had more annoying quests than cool ones. I guess its reasonable since there were so many, but the "kill 10 of those" quests or "get 15 of that thing) that had drop rate 1 out of 5 quests were really driving me crazy.
Exactly why it's important to distinguish "real" quests from "fake" quests. Players know the difference.
Killua125 wrote:
I was talking about the, uh.
Fields of Valor type stuff. (That was the floating book, right?)
They were just quests to kill x monsters if I recall.
Yeah I know the things were actually called "Quests" in FFXI were generally for items or some kind of access to something, or fame, or story.
Fields of Valor type stuff. (That was the floating book, right?)
They were just quests to kill x monsters if I recall.
Yeah I know the things were actually called "Quests" in FFXI were generally for items or some kind of access to something, or fame, or story.
Even Fields of Valor and Grounds of Valor (FoV is outside areas, GoV is inside dungeons) had a teeny bit of story behind them. The story was that the adventurer's union had put together a training guide book specific to each area for people to improve their skills, and by doing their recommended training exercises you would be rewarded with exp bonuses. With GoV, you also earned more for each successive book you completed. GoV had no direct cash rewards, but the tabs earned from doing them could be used for free warps home, buffs, and could also be spent on special fights used to augment existing gear.
GoV/FoV are not considered quests in FFXI by any player that I know of.
Transmigration wrote:
For example: In one questline I got to use a gattling gun mounted to a plane to fend off enemy planes. In another I got to participate in aerial jousting. In another I got to infiltrate an entire compound without being seen to assassinate the leader...
What other MMOs have you played with quests such as those? (Not missions, regular xp quests)
What other MMOs have you played with quests such as those? (Not missions, regular xp quests)
For one thing, most MMOs stick to their time period. I'd severely question the development team if I whipped out a Gatling Gun to kill people/enemies for a quest when the level of technology doesn't allow for that. So what other MMOs I've played with quests like that? Plenty, which is the problem...they're all eventually the same type of quests repeated over and over in every new MMO I load up.
None specifically about rolling a rock or whipping out a gatling gun, but escort/infiltration/etc type quests aren't uncommon, they're more common than you think, however, people use WoW as an example because there's more "GO GET ME 10 SKINS!" quests in every new hub you come to than there are unique quests. This is the format SE is and will follow because it's what people come to expect of an MMORPG, and it's quite sad because they're also the first to complain about getting bored.
Like seriously, I felt way more in tune with XI's storyline through the years than I did with XIV's even though XIV didn't have tons of kill quests, but with ARR, I can already see I'll be disconnected from the world after the starter levels because it's looking to be nothing different, especially with how lodestone tore sites apart for stating this because they know it's true (Google will get you all you need to know) and are worried.
Transmigration wrote:
has so many complex quests that go beyond kill/gather x. I don't know why people always use it as an example. Some of the quests are really @#%^ing cool.
For example: In one questline I got to use a gattling gun mounted to a plane to fend off enemy planes. In another I got to participate in aerial jousting. In another I got to infiltrate an entire compound without being seen to assassinate the leader...
For example: In one questline I got to use a gattling gun mounted to a plane to fend off enemy planes. In another I got to participate in aerial jousting. In another I got to infiltrate an entire compound without being seen to assassinate the leader...
The description of the quest is infinitely better than the quest itself, though, which basically amounted to you sliding along in a cheap-looking plane, clicking the 1 or 2 unique macros given to you for that quest when over the designated point. Let's be honest, those quests are far from the flight-simulating, Dishonored-style, stealth infiltration that you make them out to be.
What makes a quest Epic tho ? Or worthier of the name quest than others ? Story ? Delivery ? A Scene ? Steps ?
That's kind of like asking what makes a good person. People will widely argue about certain things and generally agree that it's open to considerable interpretation, but at the end of the day, when presented with real examples, most people won't hesitate to weigh in that the career criminal was a bad person, and the person who devoted his life to charity was a good person.
In the end it's all about the effort put in. Analysis of elements aside, when there's no real effort to be a good person or design a real quest, it shows.
In the end it's all about the effort put in. Analysis of elements aside, when there's no real effort to be a good person or design a real quest, it shows.
Theonehio wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
For example: In one questline I got to use a gattling gun mounted to a plane to fend off enemy planes. In another I got to participate in aerial jousting. In another I got to infiltrate an entire compound without being seen to assassinate the leader...
What other MMOs have you played with quests such as those? (Not missions, regular xp quests)
What other MMOs have you played with quests such as those? (Not missions, regular xp quests)
For one thing, most MMOs stick to their time period. I'd severely question the development team if I whipped out a Gatling Gun to kill people/enemies for a quest when the level of technology doesn't allow for that.
Except Azeroth doesn't necessarily fit in to a time period and Engineering is a craft that you can learn and build flying machines with..
Quote:
Let's be honest, those quests are far from the flight-simulating, Dishonored-style, stealth infiltration that you make them out to be.
It's not assassin's creed but it beats the **** out of "go make me a copper ingot" .
Edited, Apr 6th 2013 1:44am by Transmigration
A Final Fantasy MMO with fanfare has all the room in the world to explore tech or fantasy. Airships, magitek, sand cruisers, bombs, guns, magic, flying dragons, espers, etc. I feel that no matter how much I express my disdain for repetetive quests in mmos or rpgs in general. Nothing will ever meet every hope each individual player wants. They put to much effort into quality and the quantity usually dips. Put too little effort into quality and the quantity usually rises. In a subscription based mmo, I assume most mmo companies aim to do more of the latter to keep your wallets emptying?
Why must quest jobs usually trend towards fetch, kill, escort, and craft?
That is only four job descriptions.. How many jobs/job descriptions exist in the world world to draw inspirations from? Mechanic, artist, musician, recon, sabotage, slander, city community hours, and on and on and on. Maybe on a few npc interactions let us win their hearts or change their minds through conversation and actions.
There were not full blow crafts in every Final Fantasy. Through the use of dynamic hotbars make some fugging mingames in context to what the job quest consist of. Stimulate my reflex, emotional, and cognitive brain by introducing things it is not used to.
Nature: When you go on an adventure in secluded areas(besides frequent tourist attractions). Everything is not sugar and rainbows, it's not safe, it's not convienent, etc. The weather can't wait to **** on your ice cream sunday. Maybe everything is peaches and cream and suddenly a stranger wants to kill you just for the sake of it?
Give me one massive linked region consisting of 10 zones the size of beaucedine glacier. Call this zone the desert of despair. Let the environment affect me during my quests. Bloodthirsty chupacabras attacking out of thin air, spread out oasis that I must reach to not die of thirst(This need to drink could be region specific), sandstorms so fierce that you can't see 5 feet in front of you.
Make me navigate by night watching the stars and navigate by day by watching the sun, make an area with quicksands and narrow passageways that make me drop some inventory to not break my footing, have some elaborate secret passages in a crypt that demand multiplayer cohesion(maybe not good idea on a frequented required quest) but nonetheless. Have safe peaceful areas or machines to get through pieces of this hell on eorzea. Stimulate my reflex, emotional, and cognitive brain. Brainfug me, then when I feel safe, brainfug me again, and again, and again.
Add some landmarks with lore and problem solving. Add some story to this whole affair with a mix of linnear script and non linnear random sequences. Oh look there! There is a collosal beast in the center of that chasm with a dust tornado. Maybe we have to keep an airship in working order until we reach the center and descend down into the chasm?
Why must quest jobs usually trend towards fetch, kill, escort, and craft?
That is only four job descriptions.. How many jobs/job descriptions exist in the world world to draw inspirations from? Mechanic, artist, musician, recon, sabotage, slander, city community hours, and on and on and on. Maybe on a few npc interactions let us win their hearts or change their minds through conversation and actions.
There were not full blow crafts in every Final Fantasy. Through the use of dynamic hotbars make some fugging mingames in context to what the job quest consist of. Stimulate my reflex, emotional, and cognitive brain by introducing things it is not used to.
Nature: When you go on an adventure in secluded areas(besides frequent tourist attractions). Everything is not sugar and rainbows, it's not safe, it's not convienent, etc. The weather can't wait to **** on your ice cream sunday. Maybe everything is peaches and cream and suddenly a stranger wants to kill you just for the sake of it?
Give me one massive linked region consisting of 10 zones the size of beaucedine glacier. Call this zone the desert of despair. Let the environment affect me during my quests. Bloodthirsty chupacabras attacking out of thin air, spread out oasis that I must reach to not die of thirst(This need to drink could be region specific), sandstorms so fierce that you can't see 5 feet in front of you.
Make me navigate by night watching the stars and navigate by day by watching the sun, make an area with quicksands and narrow passageways that make me drop some inventory to not break my footing, have some elaborate secret passages in a crypt that demand multiplayer cohesion(maybe not good idea on a frequented required quest) but nonetheless. Have safe peaceful areas or machines to get through pieces of this hell on eorzea. Stimulate my reflex, emotional, and cognitive brain. Brainfug me, then when I feel safe, brainfug me again, and again, and again.
Add some landmarks with lore and problem solving. Add some story to this whole affair with a mix of linnear script and non linnear random sequences. Oh look there! There is a collosal beast in the center of that chasm with a dust tornado. Maybe we have to keep an airship in working order until we reach the center and descend down into the chasm?
Really neat ideas. Even if they couldn't be implemented exactly as you stated it's a great place to start. Lets hope this new dev team is open to suggestions!
Creativity? Not in MY Final Fantasy!
KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Eh, I don't mind having a Fields of Valor type situation where you can gain XP faster by targeting certain types of monsters (assuring that you actually travel around the area and fight different types of monsters rather than finding the best place to grind out Coblyns). I don't want any of that sh*t in my questing, though. To me, if you can't throw in a bit of original story and scenario, don't @#%^ing bother calling it a quest.
MMOs are notoriously terrible about this. It'd be one thing if they made even the most minimal effort, say by imposing a time limit on the Kill 10 X quest, but it's usually less of a quest and more of a "Hey, why don't you go XP on spiders for a while?"
MMOs are notoriously terrible about this. It'd be one thing if they made even the most minimal effort, say by imposing a time limit on the Kill 10 X quest, but it's usually less of a quest and more of a "Hey, why don't you go XP on spiders for a while?"
Yes! Yes, exactly! It's the fact that these MMO "quests" are too bare-bones to be called such, and because they become stale incredibly quickly, that their presence is so annoying.
Give simple, grinding-type content without a story for exp. purposes, and give interesting narratives to quests. If you give a narrative with every little task, then we just get 200 forgettable walls of text that involve poor excuses to hack at monsters spawning right next to us. It's a poor design, it's a poor story and, worst of all, it's not even fun to play through!
I agree with these sentiments. In my opinion, everything comes down to dynamics. Too much of a single thing or theme can begin to feel to familiar or lose some luster. The depth of the great is felt more when there is more tuned down aspects preceding it. If I were to speak to you about the same topic and never shift. You would feel less impacted or maybe just grow slightly disinterested. If I were to speak or project my words at the same speed, without pauses, different inflections, or without the use of different mannerisms. You would feel less impacted or maybe grow quite disinterested.
The same goes with game design. It might be a good idea to approach narrative in the same manner. Create a world with no text based or cutscene narrative and the intepretation is left entirely up to the user. Create a world with text based or cutscene narrative for every little thing and the user has no room to interpret much. The extremes do not have to be the only avenue of delivery.
What about all the subtle flavors?
Each quest could touch upon different emotional themes, an npc might speak through the inflection of different beliefs or moods.The reason to kill beasts differ to each individual. Is it out of neccessity or the fun/ thrill of the pursuit?
Pushing aside the known fact that the internet can be used to look up everything one wishes to know about a game. Would there really be an important neccesary purpose for hunting beasts other than gaining xp? Yes from time to time, but not a constant. When there is dynamics, the lesser things and greater things take on more significance.
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