Perrin wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
I say that only because you said you had no Paladin end game experience, then proceeded to say you had good experience with WAR and PLD....
If that's what you mean when you said you worded things well...
Is it not obvious that most of my experience with those jobs is supporting them via another job by either placing myself properly, giving them the appropriate song and not the rest of the PT, knowing how they need to tank certain mobs, going nuts or holding back, etc....
For WAR AOE tanking I'm referring to non-world mob situations. Primals, dungeons, and a few of the job/story related boss fights with minions. You could get by with a half-butt WAR in a lot of situations, but a GOOD WAR made a lot of the fights successful.
It is wrong of you to have the opinion that fighting alongside a handful of good tanks and a buttload of mediocre ones via PUGs from shouts is not enough information for me to see how the jobs perform differently AND effectively/non-effectively in given situations with players of a certain skill. Yes from personal experience for PLD I'm lacking a few skills (one of which is a game changer) to compare it to WAR at 50, but I can compare how tanking with WAR was up to the point I am with PLD to make an accurate statement on the personal skills it takes to operate either one as well. Both sets of information combined give me a personal view of both tanks and I stand by my wording. Please feel free to rip this apart to try and say something similar to what I'm saying...
I have no idea what you're trying to say by your last sentence. However, you're starting to sound insecure in your position. I don't know you sir. Nothing you did in 1.0 is obvious. You also talk in circles. If you believe your position can be ripped apart, then you should evaluate and adjust accordingly. Being stubborn is your right. You can delude yourself into thinking that observing is on par with personal experience. You seem to have a problem expressing your views effectively as well as objectively (the latter because you lack the personal experience but insist that you are 'informed'). Admitting that you have no experience, followed by stating that it's sufficient enough to make and educated assessment, is what I'm addressing.
Ok, you brought up supportive rolls. So, in the easy Ifrit fight, it is the job of the DPS to not be a burden on the party. Don't take needless damage and save the self healing monk skill for Vulcan Burst. White Mage should be focused on the tank. Taking the time to heal a DPS would increase the of Eruption risk on the White Mage. That is your supportive role. Now, your contention is, and I'm following your logic, is that you have 'good' experience of the White Mage job because you understand that ONE aspect in that particular fight.
In Cutter's Cry, we used 1 Black Mage 1 White Mage 1 Paladin and 5 Monks. Now opening with shoulder tackle is bad for initial hate, plus it will stun him, preventing a shield blocking chance for Phalanx,that could be used in securing a better threat foundation. To break the tail, it's better to Invigorate before the fight and toss a chakram and raw Dragon kick. Doing the combo will also stun Chimera causing the issue earlier mentioned. Too many stuns throughout the fight builds hate quickly so you should only stun the devastating Voice of the Dragon/Ram. If you get red hate, turn off Fist of Fire etc. How is me knowing my role in that dynamic giving me Paladin experience? And our Paladin is a very good one. All I'm doing is my job as a monk. What the Paladin is doing is unknown to me. I'm not the one experiencing it. By your logic, you can then just pick up Paladin and tank it no problem because you understand how to not pull hate. This is not me telling you, "STFU you don't know what you're talking about." This is me addressing your choice of words and your obstinate defense of it.
If you fought Ifrit Extreme, you'd understand even more how DIFFERENT the roles are for jobs are in that fight. If you follow the path of another job, you will get the party defeated. My role on Ifrit Exreme was Warrior, meaning my job was to stand in front when ever it was safe for the tank, and use Vengeance to deal extra damage while taking out my horn. It was also to to deal with the middle nails. What the other jobs were doing in that fight was not my interest, unless they placed me in that role. If I were to switch to Whm, Pld, Mnk, or Brd, I'd have to learn the fight from that perspective, ergo adding more knowledge of the fight. Me being on only one job, limits my information on it. While I understand what other jobs are doing theoretically, I admit my personal ignorance.
The biggest flaw in your reasoning is that even though you can watch someone fight Ifrit Extreme on a Youtube video, the actual experience through your own person, is not "similar" or "good."
I have no idea what your 'real' contention is. Mine however, is telling you that if you haven't experienced Paladin end game, you can't formulate an accurate comparison between the two stating that they take equal or similar skill. Feel free to share your experiences on Warrior and how you do various things. There is no need to argue about that. Remember, I only responded to you when you stated that they were equal in skill. Don't twist it into anything else.
Edited, Mar 15th 2013 9:12pm by GDLYL