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You're misunderstanding. The need/greed system will be in place and will block you from "Needing" items that aren't usable by your current class. In the event that something drops that you can use on another class, but the game does not allow you to "need", that'd be up to your group to pass on it, (In which case your greed roll would take priority.)

Now, there's another issue here. You'll more than likely enter this instance on that other class anyway, so there's no need for you to plan ahead, because dungeon XP is so damn good in every other game, FFXIV will probably be no exception to this rule. Furthermore, we're looking at the issue from a very FFXI point of view, where gear was usually relevant for far longer than it probably should have been. (I.E. - Leaping Boots up to level 70~).

Ultimately, the need/greed system that arbitrarily blocks you from rolling need lots on items that you can't equip given your current role (Tank/DPS/Healer), is probably the fairest system for random groups. That way, not everyone can roll need on everything.

For guild groups, particularly raids, there should be a master-looter system, in which the raid leader gets to choose who gets what. This system is what most static raid teams use to make sure everyone gets geared fairly, to ultimately progress the group as a whole.

Yeah I'm not sure that can work for FFXIV just because of the multiclass system.. some variation maybe, but not straight lifting it in its current form.

I'm not going to clarify what I meant because I'm tired and that sounds boring, but I will say this:

I don't like systems where the GAME decides what you need. Not only would it be especially problematic in FF where you can change classes, but it also promotes equipment design which is unnecessarily limited to certain classes. For example, you'll see far less equipment that is equippable by "All Jobs." While at first glance, it seems to have some appeal, I think that's unnecessarily limiting for players. Think of all the equipment options you could have had that will be taken off the table, and all the potential builds that you'll lose with it. While there are some great things about class-specific gear, logistically, it's good to keep a nice blend of cross-class gear.

And you can still do a need-based system that way, but it just undermines the purpose of it.

Alright, so I lied. Basically what I was saying was that players could select from the area's loot pool any drops (aside from trash drops, I guess) that they wanted a chance to have. The game would basically remove unchecked items from their potential loot pool, and replace it with a semi-proportional increase to their odds of getting desired items. So yeah, if you went in with only Spear of Slumber checked, you'd have decent odds of getting your Spear of Slumber in the first couple of runs (at least I think you should, though it can certainly tuned to be rarer), but you also wouldn't be getting anything else.

It's just an idea I had while I was very tired, as I am now. I haven't put much thought into it, admittedly.

Success isn't punished, but if you're in a random situation, you have nothing holding you back from showing up on the class you want gear for.


Edited, Feb 28th 2013 9:34pm by TurboTom

Wint, you need to get a better phone.

Part of the answer will depend on the level of difficulty the random content matcher is designed with. The info I have given is based on systems that currently exist in other games, and I'm trying to explain them in detail because I know that a lot of folks who played XI and are looking at this game, only played XI. I have the privilege of severe mmo ADD, so I've played to end game just about everything out there.

It seems like you are talking about two difference concepts here, and I'll try to explain how they are handled in other games for you. The first concept is this "random" grouping through a dungeon finder. This is usually at the party level and follows the need versus greed system of loot rolls, because these are COMPLETELY random people thrown together based on roles they queued for. You go through the dungeon and sometimes you get the drop you want, sometimes you don't. That's just luck. You are also earning marks for killing bosses that you can save up to buy tiered equipment. It's actually a pretty cool system so even if you never get a drop, you can use your marks to get something comparable from the equipment vendor so you can move on to the next tier of content with your guild. Think of it as sort of like doing all the CoP missions before you can go to do Sea with your guild. That's all it is, a set of prerequisite stuff but instead of "access" to the area, you are getting the correct level of equipment to play the area. I expect XIV to have some blend of the two concepts.

The second concept you seem to be talking about is more like shouts for groups in XI. You run with a group that is looking for a specific job and are planning to do a specific event, but if you are doing that you should be discussing the loot rules before you go. If you are interested in that staff, all you do is tell your group you are willing to be tank, but you want to be able to roll on that staff. They can either accept your offer or keep looking for a tank. If they don't want you, then you can always form your own shout group. It's still a "random" group of people in that they aren't part of your linkshell, but you still have some measure of control over things.

It just sounds like you are mixing up two different concepts. Need versus Greed is for very specific situations in order to be the most fair to folks grouping together in random dungeons. It's not meant to take the place of player communication in the situations you are talking about.

I agree with this^

As I said before, I don't particularly like systems that decide which equipment you need and which you don't. It narrows the scope of the incentive system unnecessarily and weakens the game overall for the sake of preventing conflict, when there are plenty of other ways to reduce conflict, even if it's just private loot pools.

Well, I agree with you, for whatever that is worth