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#127 Jan 13 2013 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
The only difference was the combat system, the leveling system was a version of the one we had in X. Please do tell me where else does the game was so different from the main series.


Yeah, I likewise do not see those things as being equal. The story was entirely different, the style was entirely different, the gameplay was entirely different. Honestly, isn't that enough?


Wait! Are you Serious ? The Story ? Damm! Where have we seen an empire launching an invasion with a vastly advance military magitech army... Hmmm! (FFII-VI) Hmm Interesting 2 Final fantasy main series titles share those traits.... Wait wait... Where have we seen a king of one of those kingdoms invaded, die and had his daughter take the mantle of rebellion.... Oh FFII you say ? Interesting... Where have we seen in another main series title, a neutral city fund the rebellion behind the scenes, and then leading them... Oh FFVI ? Damm! One of the most acclaimed final fantasy Titles. The theme of crystals is still present in FFXII, so as far as story, either you did not play many Final Fantasy's, or you just have no idea what you are talking about as far as story is involved in FFXII.

The style ? What style ? Artistic Style ? Is the same as all Ivalice titles. So i don't know what you are talking about here either, because VI is totally different to VII in artistic style as VIII is to IX, and IX is to X.

The only part where i agree that was different is in the gameplay, it had no random battles, you could control the camera, but the license board is derived from the sphere grid, just as FFT job system is derived from FFV or FFVII limits breaks are derived from VI limit breaks (Then called desperation moves.) While not being 100% the same they are variations of the same system(As no system is never the same in any FF, there is always a new twist or addition to it) so to say FFXII was vastly different from any other title in the series, is ignorant.

Summoning is handled more akin to FF X on the regular release and exactly the same as X in the international release of the game. Weather it was handled good or wrong, is not alien to the series, X handled summons totally different from all previous games, and XII borrowed from that system.

As for the bazaar, is exactly the same system that is in place in FFTA2.
#128 Jan 13 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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2,232 posts
FF XII was released 2 years before FFTA 2
#129 Jan 13 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Default
Yeah you got me on that one, i tho FFTA had a bazaar system, but it does not..... Hmm i might have to replay that one and see what system they got.
#130 Jan 13 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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598 posts
I am not liking all the Fran hate going on in this thread! Smiley: laugh
#131 Jan 13 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
Oh! Wait! Now that i remember, the bazaar system in XII, was present in FFT! It was just a minor system in the game, where you could poach monsters and sell them for items in FFT :) Sooooo There!!! FFT was released in 1997.

Go play some games guys, you are all rusty.
#132 Jan 13 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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2,232 posts
By your logic there would never exist a new system in games since all video games derive some sort of play or design from another. Since pong was the first real home game I could say that all video games ripped off pong because it had stuff on the screen and the player moved that stuff with a controller. You asked what was different and I listed all those things. I never claimed they were "vastly" different either. You inferred that meaning which is ignorant.

Similar does not mean equal to.


Edited, Jan 13th 2013 10:06am by LebargeX
#133 Jan 13 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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2,232 posts
And much love to xenophobic warrior rabbit ladies!!

Edited, Jan 13th 2013 10:12am by LebargeX
#134 Jan 13 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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9,997 posts
If you don't see how XII's story was a RADICAL departure from the storytelling in the previous Final Fantasy titles, you either really aren't a FF fan and never played them, or you're just loony and I've got better things to do than argue with a loony person.

Stopped reading there, honestly.
#135 Jan 13 2013 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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2,232 posts
Kachi wrote:
If you don't see how XII's story was a RADICAL departure from the storytelling in the previous Final Fantasy titles, you either really aren't a FF fan and never played them, or you're just loony and I've got better things to do than argue with a loony person.

Stopped reading there, honestly.


Agreed 100 percent

Smiley: grin
#136 Jan 13 2013 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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9,997 posts
Honestly, it doesn't even bother me in the slightest if someone liked XII. I didn't particularly enjoy it, but that was largely because the gameplay felt so old to me as someone who had played XI for 4 years at the time. But even among those who really liked it, I've never heard someone insist that it wasn't greatly different from the other main FF titles.
#137 Jan 13 2013 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
LebargeX wrote:
By your logic there would never exist a new system in games since all video games derive some sort of play or design from another. Since pong was the first real home game I could say that all video games ripped off pong because it had stuff on the screen and the player moved that stuff with a controller. You asked what was different and I listed all those things. I never claimed they were "vastly" different either. You inferred that meaning which is ignorant.

Similar does not mean equal to.


Edited, Jan 13th 2013 10:06am by LebargeX


First off, i was arguing with another poster first, i asked him what was vastly different in XII from the entire series, as he stated, that XII is the title that is further away from the main series, then you jumped in and listed a number of things that where different in your opinion from the main series. The argument was what system in FFXII was alien to any other Final Fantasy title, that warranted the claim that FFXII was the most distant title in the Series. The answer is none really, every system in FFXII had already been in place in different titles of the main series from combat to summons.

Logic ? Every title in the series is vastly different from the next, because no final fantasy game has the same structured system 100% as the previous one, FFVII has similar systems that FFVI employed, yet they where expanded and upgraded, Limit brakes are an upgraded version of desperation moves in FFVI, the materia system is an upgraded version of the esper system that was in place if FFVI, the junction system in VIII is a version of the materia system in FFVII. You cannot say this final fantasy is different from others because it does not uses this exact system, because every Final Fantasy uses a variation of a system already in place by another title in the franchise.

Where is the logic in saying X Final Fantasy is different from the others, because the systems in place in X Final Fantasy are not the same as those placed in Y or Z, when in fact every single entry in the series, has different systems or variations of a system that makes them different from the previous ones.
#138 Jan 13 2013 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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2,232 posts
(b'')b
#139 Jan 13 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
Kachi wrote:
If you don't see how XII's story was a RADICAL departure from the storytelling in the previous Final Fantasy titles, you either really aren't a FF fan and never played them, or you're just loony and I've got better things to do than argue with a loony person.

Stopped reading there, honestly.


Radical is a strong word, different ? maybe in how the story is told in some aspects, but having played every ogre battle, vagrant story and final fantasy tactics, maybe i am used on how yazmat tells a story, i found all the elements in you run of the mill final fantasy in place: Crystals, Evil Empire, Gods/super beings, Cid, Airships, Chocobos, rebel group etc etc.

What was so radical ? The intermissions where the marquis would explain stuff at the end of a chapter ?
#140 Jan 13 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
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1,675 posts
I liked XII. Although I've only played it on an emulator.

The voice acting and actual script was pretty good. It wasn't as cringe-worthy as XIII was.

The story was kinda eh, but overall the game was decent. I liked the combat, and liked (for the most part) the changes in the battle system.

The tone of the game seemed pretty serious and seemed to eschew injecting too much "J" in JRPG...which I like. It carried about the same tone as FFXI.

Is it in my top 5 FF? Maybe, but only because I think the entire FF series as a whole is a bit weak. It wouldn't make a top 10 or maybe even top 20 RPG/JRPG list of mine though.
#141 Jan 13 2013 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
Which would be your top 5 ? in order ?
#142 Jan 13 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,530 posts
Ostia wrote:
Which would be your top 5 ? in order ?


FF XIII
FF XIII-3
FF XIII-2
FF X-2
and Crystal Chronicles.

Would anyone trust my word ever again if that's how I answered that question? Smiley: lol
#143 Jan 13 2013 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
KaneKitty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Which would be your top 5 ? in order ?


FF XIII
FF XIII-3
FF XIII-2
FF X-2
and Crystal Chronicles.

Would anyone trust my word ever again if that's how I answered that question? Smiley: lol


Smiley: laugh
#144 Jan 13 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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9,997 posts
Quote:
Radical is a strong word, different ? maybe in how the story is told in some aspects, but having played every ogre battle, vagrant story and final fantasy tactics, maybe i am used on how yazmat tells a story, i found all the elements in you run of the mill final fantasy in place: Crystals, Evil Empire, Gods/super beings, Cid, Airships, Chocobos, rebel group etc etc.

What was so radical ? The intermissions where the marquis would explain stuff at the end of a chapter ?


Er, just little things, like:
1) Far less story in general than other FF's.
2) The "protagonist" isn't really even the main character.
3) Extremely little character development.
4) A minor note really, but you forgot about the summons which have been present in almost every FF (even FFT), which were completely absent in XII.

None of the games you've listed were part of the number Final Fantasy series. Again, I'm not arguing that it was bad... just that it was a radical departure. Chicken is a perfectly fine meat, but if you label it as steak and serve it up to me, I'm going to be confused if not disappointed.
#145 Jan 13 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Kachi wrote:
4) A minor note really, but you forgot about the summons which have been present in almost every FF (even FFT), which were completely absent in XII.


Wait, what?
#146 Jan 13 2013 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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9,997 posts
Surely you both realize and understand that the overlap between those summons and the classic summons approaches 0?
#147 Jan 13 2013 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Kachi wrote:
Surely you both realize and understand that the overlap between those summons and the classic summons approaches 0?


In name and appearance sure. I figured you were talking about summons in general, not that they have the exact same names and looks. It has summoning, I can't see how that makes it less Final Fantasyish, or a "Radical" departure from the series. Hell they're even elemental based. So we're really just talking about their name and looks. Is FFX a radical departure because it has Yojimbo, Anima, and the Magus Sisters? Or is that one ok because it still has Shiva and Ifrit?
#148 Jan 13 2013 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
KaneKitty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Which would be your top 5 ? in order ?


FF XIII
FF XIII-3
FF XIII-2
FF X-2
and Crystal Chronicles.

Would anyone trust my word ever again if that's how I answered that question? Smiley: lol


Smiley: lol Well with that line up probably not, but with just one of those, i can see past it Smiley: lol But with that specific line up, oh hell no XD!

#149 Jan 13 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
Final Fantasy XII was bad to me only because I don't remember anything about it. It's the only FF that's ever done that to me, and I don't know why. I played through the whole damn thing, put hours into it, but here we are a few years later, and nothing about it comes to mind. I haven't played FFX since it first came out and I remember quite a bit of it, heck even VIII which I only played through once on release, I remember.

Not sure what it was about it overall, but everything from the world, to story, to characters didn't stick with me. I do remember the battle system though, so I guess they did that ok. Someday I'll give it another spin since I still have my ps2 with a copy of it laying around, maybe it'll be better on a 2nd play through.
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#150 Jan 13 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
All this talk about FFXII has me wanting to play again. I must learn how to use one of these emulators y'all are talking about
#151 Jan 13 2013 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Radical is a strong word, different ? maybe in how the story is told in some aspects, but having played every ogre battle, vagrant story and final fantasy tactics, maybe i am used on how yazmat tells a story, i found all the elements in you run of the mill final fantasy in place: Crystals, Evil Empire, Gods/super beings, Cid, Airships, Chocobos, rebel group etc etc.

What was so radical ? The intermissions where the marquis would explain stuff at the end of a chapter ?


Er, just little things, like:
1) Far less story in general than other FF's.
2) The "protagonist" isn't really even the main character.
3) Extremely little character development.
4) A minor note really, but you forgot about the summons which have been present in almost every FF (even FFT), which were completely absent in XII.

None of the games you've listed were part of the number Final Fantasy series. Again, I'm not arguing that it was bad... just that it was a radical departure. Chicken is a perfectly fine meat, but if you label it as steak and serve it up to me, I'm going to be confused if not disappointed.


1) It has a complete storyline, i can see where is a more simplified story of war and politics, where in your run of the mill FF is more about monsters and aliens and powers and plotholes, but is a solid story, it has more story than FF1,FF2,FF3,FFVIII,FFIX and X.(Maybe IX is a stretch.)
2) Did you play VI ? Terra is the protagonist, but she is not the main character of 100% of the story, VI does not revolve around her 100%, van is the protagonist but the story does not revolve around him, is a story of those around him, told from his point of view. (Btw: he was not meant to be the protagonist, SE Higher ups made yazmat change the protagonist.)
3) I agree. And i could explain to you why, but is more of behind the scenes of what went down in the development of the game so i'll just agree with you.
4) There are summons in FFXII... You mean the traditional summons ?

Now let me leave something clear, i am by no means trying to change your mind, if you did not like it, you did not like it, for example i don't consider VII the best FF, while i do understand some people see is as the holy grail of RPGS. I am just trying to explain that while being different from other titles in the series, every title in the series is different from one another, that should not be a reason to claim FFXII is not a true FF, it is different than others, because unlike previous FF, FFXII is set in the world of Ivalice, it has it's own lore and mechanics already in place before the creation of FFXII.

P.S: While the games that i mentioned are not part of Final Fantasy series, they are a core part of the Ivalice series, FFXII is based on the Ivalice world (Vagrant story, FFT, FFA world) so maybe while to me, it was a great addition to the ivalice story, to you as a stand alone FF, it felt lackluster, tho having played every FF game and spin off, i do not see it as the most distant, i mean there is a game called FFXIIII and FFX-2 and FFXIII-2 and FFXIV. And there is also the issue that FFXII is an incomplete game, and it was full of problems in it's developing cycle, all the while it still the only FF to score a perfect score in famitsu.... Of only yazmat had finished the game and SE din't ruin it :(
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